Masturbation: Another Sticky Subject
I had no idea when I created last week’s blog about “Teens & Sex Toys: A Sticky Subject” that such a debate would be sparked! We’ve been both overwhelmed and entertained by the number of responses we received via the blog, facebook, and our web community. Thanks to all of you (on BOTH sides of the issue) who shared some great thoughts and words of wisdom!
But the debate seems to have evolved. At first the issue was whether or not parents should participate in Dr. Laura Berman’s “Toys for Tots” program (sorry, but I couldn’t resist cracking that joke), providing vibrators to their teenage daughters to keep them from becoming sexually active with boys. But now folks seem to be fussing more about the act of masturbation itself – is it morally wrong, or perfectly normal?
My answer to that question? Not everything is one way or the other – right or wrong, black or white, good or bad. Varying shades of gray do exist, and fortunately God has given us the intellect to think these things through and come to responsible conclusions about what we feel would be right or wrong for each of us as individuals (also known as “personal conviction”).
So let’s look at the issue of masturbation through BOTH lenses for a moment…
If I were a lawyer and had to make a case that masturbation is perfectly OKAY, I could press the following points:
- Scripture doesn’t mention the issue of masturbation at all, so God must not have too much of an issue with it or else surely He’d have mentioned it.
- Sure, the Bible warns against sexual immorality, adultery, lusting after someone else’s spouse, putting vile things before our eyes, etc. but one could make the case that masturbation could physically be accomplished apart from all of those things. (In case you are wondering, the story of “Onan” had nothing to do with masturbation, but the sin of shirking family responsibilities by spilling his seed on the ground instead of impregnating his wife).
- I could insist that God created us as sexual beings, and surely expects us to have these desires fulfilled when they arise or else He wouldn’t have “wired” us this way.
- I could point to how common of an issue this is among human beings (quoting studies that say something like 96% of people masturbate, and the other 4% are lying about it) and accuse society of simply trying to suppress our sexuality by discouraging masturbation.
But if I were a lawyer and had to make a case that masturbation is NOT OKAY, I could press these points:
- It’s impossible for a single person to masturbate without entertaining sexual fantasies about someone they aren’t married to, and that is clearly discouraged in Scripture (see Matthew 5).
- Masturbating rather than exercising self-control is like throwing gasoline on your own sexual fire – you’re only going to want more, and more, and go to greater and greater lengths to satisfy your sexual cravings when you’ve not learned to exercise self-control and delay sexual gratification.
- I could say that a married person is robbing their spouse of sexual and relational fulfillment when, rather than reaching out to share that pleasure, they “take matters into their own hands” instead.
- I could quote from a plethora of emails I receive from women who feel so deeply betrayed by husbands who would rather have sex by themselves than invest the time and energy required to connect with her.
I don’t think anyone could argue with any of these points – they are ALL valid! So if Scripture doesn’t spell it out, and a solid case can be made for both sides of the issue, how are we supposed to know? That’s where prayer comes in. Instead of consulting a black-and-white rule book or following a prescribed formula, perhaps we need to simply spend time with God and ask Him directly about our unique situations. I assure you, He’s interested in helping us figure out what’s best, because He wants the best for us.
For example, one woman emailed recently saying that her husband had been deployed overseas for several months, and it would be several more before he’d be coming home. She explained, “He told me he would completely understand if I felt the need to satisfy myself while he was gone, and as I’ve prayed about it, I don’t feel that God would be displeased with me at all, especially if I’m only thinking of my husband during the act.” Perhaps someone else would feel justified throwing a stone at this woman, but I wouldn’t. Two weeks apart would have me climbing walls. I can’t imagine two years of complete abstinence.
So masturbation is okay for all married people as long as they only think of their spouse? I wouldn’t go that far. Personally, we’ve chosen for many years to have a “no masturbation” rule in our marriage. If one is feeling frisky, the ideal scenario is for them to reach out and “share the love” rather than being selfish with it. Have we ever broken the rule? Sure. But we confess, ask forgiveness, and reconnect with the real purpose of our sexual desires – to bring us closer to each other, and ultimately closer to God as we submit to His perfect plan of husbands and wives freely sharing their minds, bodies, hearts, and souls with one another – all without guilt, shame, or inhibition. Instead of individual intensity, we strive for genuine intimacy, or IN-TO-ME-SEE, because that’s far more fulfilling than just physical pleasure alone.
But what about for teens & singles? I do believe there’s a lot to be said for saving your sexual energies for your spouse someday. I know, that’s easy for a married woman who can have sex anytime she wants to say. But here’s my reasoning: You train your body as to what it finds pleasurable. If you walk into a marriage so addicted to masturbation that you would rather withdraw privately for your sexual satisfaction than share that passion and pleasure with your spouse, there’s something wrong with that picture.
So then we get into the issue of “addiction.” When is masturbation an “addiction,” and when is it a normal biological drive? After years of counseling teens & singles, I’ll let you in on my elaborate scientific method for determining the difference. I look at the answer to one question: How long can you go without giving in to your masturbatory desires? If someone tells me they go for weeks or months before “caving in,” I don’t get too worried. They obviously have the thought/desire more often than that, but they are usually able to exercise self-control. An occasional slip up simply means they are human. The vast majority of the time, they rule over their sexual desires, not vice-versa. However, if they tell me they masturbate often with little self-control (several times a week, or even several times a day), I get concerned. The habits we create as a single person follow us right on into marriage. Putting a wedding band on our finger doesn’t change anything about us except our last name. A masturbation addiction has the potential to negatively affect, and even destroy, an otherwise healthy marriage. The reality is that most spouses would feel personally rejected if we were to repeatedly choose masturbation over marital intimacy.
While a blog like this can create a firestorm of controversy, I hope we can operate on the law of love here and continue discussing these “sticky subjects” without throwing any stones. What is YOUR personal conviction about the issue? What nuggets of wisdom do you think people should consider when making the decision about whether to engage in or refrain from a lifestyle of masturbation?
Wishing you sexual wisdom and confidence,
Shannon
P.S. You might also want to check out these video clips from my friend Dr. Doug Rosenau, author of the book Celebration of Sex:
Question about masturbation for singles:
http://www.iquestions.com/video/view/850
Question about masturbation for couples:
http://www.iquestions.com/video/view/842
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Wow, thanks for writing about this. It’s a topic given far too little attention in Christian circles…and one I believe affects far more Christians than one might think. As a single Christian woman who was addicted (yes, addicted) to masturbation for YEARS, I believe wholeheartedly that not only is it not God’s plan but it is sin.
My reasons for saying this are several.
First, in my own spirit and soul, I can’t begin to describe the shame associated with it (and I believe anyone who has struggled can relate to this).
Second, can there be anything good about something we feel must be done in secret? — not only must be done in secret but must be kept secret (I mean married folks have sex “in secret” but it’s not “a secret” that they do…make sense?)
Third, Song of Solomon (2:7 and 3:5) commands us not to awaken love until it is time… I believe one of the applications of that verse has to do with not stirring up the desires in us until their appropriate time. (I think this can apply to things as as simple as young kids dating to things as “sticky” as masturbation).
Fourth, Scripture tells us our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Should I be using my body to gratify the lust of the flesh apart from God’s institution of marriage? (and even then, it shouldn’t be about lust but about joining with my spouse and becoming one flesh).
These are just some things that come to mind right off the bat…along with the points you make in your legal “case” against.
In short, I do not believe masturbation advances one’s walk with the Lord while I do believe it can in some ways hinder it.
I applaud you, though, for drawing attention to it. Too many people are in bondage to this addiction and feel they are alone. Like anything, this needs to be brought to the light because in the light is freedom.
Personally, I struggled with this for years, always feeling very dirty and full of guilt. I have finally overcome this temptation, and I have never looked back. I wish someone would have sat me down and warned me against this as a child before I began to justify and rationalize my behavior for years. I don’t really see anything edifying about this behavior. The Word says “Everything is permissible, but not everything is beneficial.” I think masturbation fails into this. Our God has given us laws to help us and to point out where we fall short. If we truly encountered the love of God, our flesh would fall away because He fully satisfies our Spirit. I am not here to condemn anyone who has found a life-giving way to partake in this, but I will never justify this behavior to someone who is partaking in it destructively. As Christians, we are not called to “toe” the line — we are called to run as far away as we can from the line (flee from temptation).
I remember very distintly waking up in the middle of an orgasm caused by a dream. It was the first time I had ever experienced orgasm. How nice for me except then I learned how to replicate that feeling. And I did so almost daily for years. I was so ashamed. And I only talk about it here in anonymity.
It has, like you said it would, trained my body how to respond. This has robbed my husband of being able to please me in a “traditional” manner for over 5 years. That’s a long time, and we’re still working on it. I pray that I can re-teach my body what it should respond to.
If I could go back and do things all over again, I would definitely choose a different path.
CHRISTIAN’S VIEW OF MASTURBATION
It is general knowledge that today people of the world, including a large percentage of churchgoers, being “past all moral sense,” encourage and recommend the unnatural practice of masturbation. (Eph. 4:19) In striking contrast, true Christians seek to learn and follow what God’s Word the Bible says on matters of sex and morals. True, the words “masturbation” and “self-abuse” are not in the Bible. The Mosaic law speaks of “emission of semen,” but as Bible commentators point out, the reference is to involuntary nocturnal emissions, not self-induced ejaculations. (Lev. 15:16) However, there are Bible principles that adequately cover the subject of masturbation.
For example, Colossians 3:5, 6 says: “Deaden, therefore, your body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. On account of these things the wrath of God is coming.” As we have seen, masturbation is indeed a “hurtful desire.” It is also “uncleanness,” for it is an immoral practice, and this explains why the masturbator generally is ashamed of himself and hides his repugnant act from the sight of others.
The Christian apostle Paul’s counsel is right to the point: “God called us, not with allowance for uncleanness, but in connection with sanctification.” And again he writes: “Therefore, since we have these promises, beloved ones, let us cleanse ourselves of every defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in God’s fear.”—1 Thess. 4:7; 2 Cor. 7:1.
What about the “sexual appetite” of the masturbator? Is it ‘deadened’? Or does he constantly feed and enliven his sexual craving, yes, even to the point of “planning ahead for the desires of the flesh,” contrary to the Bible’s advice?—Rom. 13:14.
The scripture mentions that “covetousness, which is idolatry,” should also be ‘deadened.’ This would apply here, for the masturbator’s affection is diverted away from the Creator and is bestowed upon a coveted object, in this case his genitals, which take on undue importance. This practice then could border on idolatry, as in the ancient practice of phallic worship so hated by God. Instead of being devoted ‘whole-souled to Jehovah’ (Col. 3:23), the person can become a slave to his fleshly sexual impulses, desires and appetite and make these the object of his devotion. “Such men,” the apostle says, “are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own base passions,” “their appetites are their god.”—Rom. 16:18; Phil. 3:19, An American Translation.
“Autoerotism” literally means self-love or erotic love of oneself. It is another term that fittingly applies to masturbation, for the persistent practice causes a person’s thoughts to be turned inward so that he becomes self-centered and selfish, with problems in trying to relate himself to others. For this reason some psychologists have labeled self-gratifying masturbation as narcissism, after the Greek mythological god Narcissus, who fell in love with his own image, to his destruction. Did not the Bible warn that “men will be lovers of themselves” in these “last days”?—2 Tim. 3:1, 2.
Shannon, the problem I have with majority of what you are saying is you are coming from your own experience and that of others. Majority of your blog was from your own opinion and experience (and others) not much of the Bible at all. I don’t care if the Bible doesn’t have the precise word “masterbation” or or any other human made word for sin… the Bible is the answer for the world today, not some experts opinion or someone with a degree.. God is the standard not anyone else or their experience. “For what if some did not believe? Will their unbelief make the faithfulness of God without effect? 4 Certainly not! Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar…” Romans 3:3-4
Amen to both comments!
I’ve never struggled with that issue. But my husband has. My thinking is, if it’s a topic that needs to be discussed/argued then it’s wrong. No believer will ever have to argue that Salvation comes through JESUS alone. The Holy Spirit gives us conviction. If we choose to ignore Him, He will let us be.
I have delt with the affects of my husband’s premaritial masturbation and porn. The pictures are forever imprinted in his head. It has ruined our sex life. I am 5′3” and 130lbs with a very althetic build (I played competitive sports from elementary to college level.) Even thought I am skinny my husband looks at me and is completely turned off. I have done everything to lose weight: diet pills, diet, and exercise. Today for example I have taken 4 diet pills, ran a mile (1/2 uphill) and eaten less than 600 calories. Maybe one day I will be skinny enough for my husband. It is sad to think I am only 20 and my sex life is over.
Parents I plead with you to talk with your kids about this issue. You do not want your kid or future son or daughter-in-law to be in a relationship like this. Do whatever is required to prevent masturbation.
I really appreciate your angle, Shannon, and agree with you. We are not under the law, so why discuss this matter as though we were? We are under grace, and actually the demands of love call us to have a higher standard than simply what can be legally justified. Grace says, “Since I am loved and reconciled to God, what should be my loving response to him?” This is where the heart comes in. In the majority of cases, I think most of us would find masturbation to be unhelpful at best, and extremely destructive at worst.
Finally, I would just like to say to Liz that I am so very sorry to hear about your ordeal! Please realize that the problem is NOT that you are not skinny enough, but that your husband seems to have a warped idea of what is sexually attractive. From what you say, I am sure you are aware of that, but it is important that you don’t destroy yourself trying to meet his perhaps unspoken demands. He needs the help of the Lord, and perhaps a counsellor to put this right, and I DO believe that with God all things are possible. No matter how out of control this has been, he can learn new thought patterns if he wants to cooperate with God. Liz, please know you are beautiful in God’s sight, and I pray your husband will one day appreciate that totally! Thanks also for your warning to parents to train their kids. Point taken!
Wow. I have to say that if I WEREN’T a Christian, I’d be totally turned off by the manner in which this topic is being ‘discussed’. Heck, I’m turned off by it and I AM!
I didn’t get the impression at ALL that Shannon was in any way endorsing masturbation. In fact, she mounted a good argument against it adding ‘we have a NO masturbation rule in our marriage’. Did anyone read that note??
Because it isn’t discussed in scripture, it obviously isn’t something God has a clear cut, black and white answer on. So to debate it beyond your own personal conviction is flat-out anal and legalistic, playing God in everyone else’s life. Need we be reminded of how Jesus hated the Pharisees? Masturbation is NOT a matter of salvation. I do not personally endorse masturbation in my own life or marriage, however in the same breath I will NOT pretend that I know what is or isn’t best for the woman who’s husband is overseas in the marines, etc. How could we dare play Judge in ANYONE else’s life?? That simply isn’t a place I’m willing to go.
I’m guessing that if Jesus were given the choice of hanging out with either someone addicted to/in favor of masturbation, or the person condemning that person for their behavior…He’d choose the former, no question.
We ALL need grace. If masturbation isn’t your issue, certainly something else IS. Lets not condemn one another. Let’s not play Judge. Let’s walk in grace with one another, encouraging each other no matter where we are in life, trusting the Holy Spirit to make HIS ways known to each of us.
(And Liz–you shouldn’t be punishing yourself for your husbands poor mistakes. His issues are NOT your fault. I’m so sorry that you’ve found yourself in such an unhealthy relationship. Your husband needs to drop a pair and deal with his issues rather than cowardly allowing you to beat yourself up everyday.)
I don’t believe there is any Biblical prohibition against mastrubation.
I also think it’s incredibley sad that so many women are feeling guilt and shame for something *normal* and *natural*. That right there is the reason for the sexual dysdunction so many conservative Christians face.
… according to GOD’S WORD
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“I have to say that if I WEREN’T a Christian, I’d be totally turned off by the manner in which this topic is being ‘discussed’”
The world isn’t supposed to “like, love, relate to, see as another alternative” the TRUTH, God’s Word. Jesus uses a word that is quite strong- hate…
“If the world hates you, remember that it hated me first. The world would love you as one of its own if you belonged to it, but you are no longer part of the world. I chose you to come out of the world, so it hates you. Do you remember what I told you? ‘A slave is not greater than the master.’ Since they persecuted me, naturally they will persecute you. And if they had listened to me, they would listen to you. They will do all this to you because of me, for they have rejected the One who sent me. They would not be guilty if I had not come and spoken to them. But now they have no excuse for their sin.” John 15:18-22
“You adulterers![a] Don’t you realize that friendship with the world makes you an enemy of God? I say it again: If you want to be a friend of the world, you make yourself an enemy of God. What do you think the Scriptures mean when they say that the spirit God has placed within us is filled with envy?[b] But he gives us even more grace to stand against such evil desires. As the Scriptures say,
“God opposes the proud
but favors the humble.”[c]
So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Come close to God, and God will come close to you. Wash your hands, you sinners; purify your hearts, for your loyalty is divided between God and the world.” James 4:4-9
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“Because it isn’t discussed in scripture, it obviously isn’t something God has a clear cut, black and white answer on.”
Wow, that is the most lame statement I’ve ever heard! The God of the universe not having a clear cut, black and white answer? He can create the universe, man… and he doesn’t have a clear cute, black and white answer for masturbation?! You and I must not be reading the same Bible. You don’t think “masturbation” happened in Sodom & Gomorrah or Babylon… just because the word “masturbation” isn’t used?
“History merely repeats itself. It has all been done before. Nothing under the sun is truly new. Sometimes people say, “Here is something new!” But actually it is old; nothing is ever truly new.” Ecclesiastes 1:9-10
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“Masturbation is NOT a matter of salvation.”
“Don’t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don’t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, or are thieves, or greedy people, or drunkards, or are abusive, or cheat people—none of these will inherit the Kingdom of God. Some of you were once like that. But you were cleansed; you were made holy; you were made right with God by calling on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” I Corinthians 6:9-11
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“I’m guessing that if Jesus were given the choice of hanging out with either someone addicted to/in favor of masturbation, or the person condemning that person for their behavior…He’d choose the former, no question.”
When I read about the story of woman with the Alabaster box, the man who was possessed by a demon, zacchaeus the tax collector, the blind man by pool of bethseda, the woman at the well… they all came to Jesus sick with something (wanting to be delivered) and they all left FREE [except for those in his own hometown who did not believe]! I do not expect someone who doesn’t follow Jesus not to masturbate, fornicate, cheat, lie, murder, molest, rape, etc… DUH that is what sinners do, they sin!!
Oh no that’s right, we are just sinners saved by grace, right? Umm NO! The Bible never says that RELIGION does (too many verses to place here but ephesians, corinthians, I john, II john, II john is a great place to start). If a Christian is just a sinner just saved by grace then what’s the point of Jesus? I thought HE redeemed us from EVERY curse and sin?! His grace is not some cheap, fairy tale hope… it is REAL! Real enough to break any, every and all bondage of sin, sickness, etc! Its not in us that makes us free, its HIM… HE paid with His life so we could be righteous & its sad, pathetic that many Christians today offer the world nothing more than that of secular psychoanalysts… with things like “well masturbation isn’t even in the Bible so God must say its okay”. ‘Thus you are nullifying and making void and of no effect [the authority of] the Word of God through your tradition…’ and it is disheartening at the very least.
“So then, since we have a great High Priest who has entered heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to what we believe. This High Priest of ours understands our weaknesses, for he faced all of the same testings we do, yet he did not sin. So let us come boldly to the throne of our gracious God. There we will receive his mercy, and we will find grace to help us when we need it most.” -Hebrews 4:14-16
How are we the “Christians” supposed to share the FREEDOM of Christ if we are in continuous bondage?! How can we be light, salt?
Jesus said, “You are the salt of the earth. But what good is salt if it has lost its flavor? Can you make it salty again? It will be thrown out and trampled underfoot as worthless.” Matthew 5:13
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“Need we be reminded of how Jesus hated the Pharisees?”
Jesus never “hated” the Pharisees. He did strongly come against religion and hypocrisy. He got angry at them because they claimed to obey the Messiah but they were stealing from the Messiah’s house, trying to stop healing (a work of the Messiah) on the Sabbath, Jesus proclaiming He could forgive sins heal people and such… they got mad at Jesus for FULFILLING the WILL, the work of HIS FATHER, the Messiah whom they studied, researched, followed, and claimed to obey. He got mad at the church of that day… and if you search the scripture, He didn’t bite His tongue afraid of “offending” or “condemning” … He said some pretty strong statements. In today’s day he would probably be deemed as a legalist, extremist who has no compassion, a judgmental, condemning preacher who has no right to say such things. The same Jesus who is the Prince of Peace also said,
“Everyone who acknowledges me publicly here on earth, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But everyone who denies me here on earth, I will also deny before my Father in heaven.
“Don’t imagine that I came to bring peace to the earth! I came not to bring peace, but a sword.
‘I have come to set a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law.
Your enemies will be right in your own household!’[l]
“If you love your father or mother more than you love me, you are not worthy of being mine; or if you love your son or daughter more than me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you refuse to take up your cross and follow me, you are not worthy of being mine. If you cling to your life, you will lose it; but if you give up your life for me, you will find it.” Matthew 10:32-39
Sounds pretty intense, challenging to me. I don’t want some pansy, pathetic, sugar coated, politically correct, make your message suitable for everybody so they not be offended, can’t deliver Jesus… He was led as a lamb to the slaughter but He is coming back as THE LION of the tribe of Judah!! The truth is in the last days MANY [even the VERY ELECT] will BE DECEIVED… how do we avoid this? STAY IN THE WORD… SEEK HIS FACE… NEVER take ANYONE’S opinion on something… look it up with the Holy Spirit’s help in THE WORD.
Some may be thinking none of us are perfect. We all have flaws, make mistakes, sin everyday either consciously or unconsciously. Shoot, Christians aren’t perfect… never have never will be.
“But you are to be perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.” Matthew 5:48
He wouldn’t have said it if it wasn’t possible and last time I checked WITH GOD ALL things are possible.
I understand everyone gets tempted. GOD is faithful.
“The temptations in your life are no different from what others experience. And God is faithful. He will not allow the temptation to be more than you can stand. When you are tempted, he will show you a way out so that you can endure.” I Corinthians 10:13
I agree with Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family when he says, “I hope you won’t feel a need for masturbation, but if you do, I hope you won’t struggle with guilt over it.”
God went to great lengths to tell us in His Word what’s sin in His eyes, and while some people like to use Scripture to back up their own beliefs (“eisogesis” rather than proper “exegesis”), we have to be careful not to put words into God’s mouth that He never spoke. THAT is what angered Jesus about the Pharisees — that they called things “law” that God never called “law,” putting an unnecessary burden on people.
Whether masturbation is considered a “sin” or not, I’m so grateful that our salvation is by GRACE through FAITH in Christ alone, not by works or our own righteousness. If everyone’s salvation was dependant upon whether or not they completely refrained from sin (especially whether or not we had ever masturbated before), NONE of us would get into heaven! Thank you, Jesus, that you love us so unconditionally, and that your blood sets us free!
Melodee, God created us all different, so why would there always be one answer for everyone?
We are called to different things. For example, not everyone is meant to be parents. Many people realize this and make the choice to remain childless. Not everyone is meant to be married. We all choose different careers, for a variety of reasons.
So, it makes complete sense to me that there are different answers for different people. Giving a cookie cutter answer completely discounts the fact that God made us all different! We are different by design.
I keep comparing this issue to alcohol. Some people are pre-disposed to alcohol abuse, or never learned healthy drinking habits, or simply lack self-control. If you are unable to control your drinking, it’s a porblem. If you go even further and drive drunk or say, get into fights while drunk, miss work etc, then that’s an even bigger problem.
But the majority of people consume alcohol in moderation with no negative affects. The same is true for mastrubation. I think it’s silly to “outlaw” it for everyone, because a few people have a problem with control. I think there are also bigger issues in life and mastrubation can sometimes ward off a much, much greater problem ( liike out of wedlock pregnancy, or marital infedelity ).
I think it’s also very, very important not to confuse pornography with mastrubation. In these conversations, they seem to be linked, but they are not. Pornography is wrong. It degrades the women in the porn, the men using the porn, and the wives of those men. It is destructive to marriage and families. Whether a person mastrubates while using porn is not the issue. Just looking at porn is showing complete disrespect for your spouse and your marriage.
That said, I’m also not the though police. I don’t want to know what my husband thinks about while mastrubating, as long as he is respectful to me. We are human beings. We are not even neccessarily desgined to be monogamous, but that is a choice we make out of love and respect for our spouse. I’m not going to condemn someone for their throughts.
And yes, very extreme views on minor issues like this, drive moderates ( who are the majority ) away, and keep them from hearing about the real issues, the truth of God’s love, Jesus’ teachings and all the things vastly more important to us.
Melodee, continuing to read your passage, I would agree that Jesus *is* grace. They are one in the same. I would also agrue that *religion* is the thing that creates rules, guilt, opression and projects our human views onto God, not always thniking about what God wants. Human beings are the ones who havea problem with forgiveness, not God. Human beings are the ones who are prejudiced against other faiths, colors, races, and gay people. Then, they use God to justify their prejudice. That isn’t God, and as a Christian, I get so angry at people suing Jesus to justify their own hate.
So, what I mean is, it is human nature to be picky and petty and judgemental. I honestly do not believe God cares if I mastrubate once in a while. I don’t think God cares if I lust after my husband. I don’t think God cares if I use birth control. I just don’t. These are human concerns.
And Melodee, we can romantacise sex all we want, but yes, sex is born from lust and sex is about releasing that lust. As a Christian, I make the choice to keep that lust and it’s fufillment for my husband. But God made us sexual beings! Why are we fighting against the very nature of God’s own design, suffering the guilt from being unable to change what is inate; and then somehow claim we are righteous to do so?
“I agree with Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family when he says, “I hope you won’t feel a need for masturbation, but if you do, I hope you won’t struggle with guilt over it.”
“I am shocked that you are turning away so soon from God, who called you to himself through the loving mercy of Christ.[c] You are following a different way that pretends to be the Good News but is not the Good News at all. You are being fooled by those who deliberately twist the truth concerning Christ.
Let God’s curse fall on anyone, including us or even an angel from heaven, who preaches a different kind of Good News than the one we preached to you. I say again what we have said before: If anyone preaches any other Good News than the one you welcomed, let that person be cursed.
Obviously, I’m not trying to win the approval of people, but of God. If pleasing people were my goal, I would not be Christ’s servant.” Galatians 1:6-10
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“God went to great lengths to tell us in His Word what’s sin in His eyes, and while some people like to use Scripture to back up their own beliefs (”eisogesis” rather than proper “exegesis”), we have to be careful not to put words into God’s mouth that He never spoke. THAT is what angered Jesus about the Pharisees — that they called things “law” that God never called “law,” putting an unnecessary burden on people.”
Where is the scripture(s) or verse(s) that you are coming from? I see none. If you are referring to any scriptures that I am saying out of context or in your perspective none applicable at all, please site or reference (and if you choose please explain) but seemingly vague statements are useless.
“Don’t misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God’s law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. So if you ignore the least commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
“But I warn you—unless your righteousness is better than the righteousness of the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees, you will never enter the Kingdom of Heaven!” -Matthew 5:17-20
–
Maria, I understand God created every single one of us different. In Psalms it states, we are fearfully and wonderfully made and marvelous are His works. Jeremiah 29:11 tells us that God knows the plans that He has for us and it is to prosper us and not to harm us to give us a hope and a future. We each (as Christians) have a part to play in the body of Christ… it states that clearly in Corinthians. I agree with you that God has called each of us for such a time as this in different spheres of influence, the Bible tells us this from the beginning to the end. However, the Word tells us even in our lives we are to seek the Lord and trust Him with all our heart, lean not to our own understanding acknowledge Him in all we do and He will direct our paths (Proverbs 4). Someone may be called to be a CEO of a corporation, another may be called to the mission field … I understand this and both are awesome callings and obviously God would give the person who is a CEO a different answer on something pertaining to his sphere of influence than the person on the mission field. Nonetheless, if the CEO commits lies on his personal income tax and the missionary lies and keeps his tithe… in either circumstances its still sin. NOT because I said it, or so in so said it or because Joe Blow the expert doesn’t…. its sin because GOD’S WORD says it.
“I think it’s also very, very important not to confuse pornography with mastrubation. In these conversations, they seem to be linked, but they are not. Pornography is wrong. It degrades the women in the porn, the men using the porn, and the wives of those men. It is destructive to marriage and families. Whether a person mastrubates while using porn is not the issue. Just looking at porn is showing complete disrespect for your spouse and your marriage.”
Maria, are you serious? Do you not think the precious young lady (Liz) isn’t being degraded by her husband every time he rejects her sexually due to her not being competitive enough with his masturbation experiences? So, porn is wrong but masturbation is all natural and none harmful? Wow, I really don’t get that at all… I’m trying to get where you coming from logically (not even hitting biblically) and it just doesn’t make sense.
In the rest of your comment you kept saying you think this and that and perspectives from majority of people … Maria, I don’t care what you or anyone thinks. I want what GOD thinks and HE wrote what pleases Him in HIS WORD. If you would have even mentioned some verses or something in reference to God’s perspective from the Bible then I would take my time to respond to the rest of what you said but you did not– just opinion. Also, it is not condemning to get in the Word of God and reference to what it says.
“For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God. Everything is naked and exposed before his eyes, and he is the one to whom we are accountable.”-Hebrews 4:12-13
Most of what was in my comment (and response to others comments indirectly or directly to me) was scripture… because I really just want GOD’S HEART, WORD, THOUGHT, OPINION, WISDOM, SAYS SO on it (everything really). I express the Word on opinions, statements and such and some may get offended, thinking I am judging them when its really the sharpness of the Word. If you also notice on some responses back I don’t even add “my own” anything its just scripture/verses and people jump on it, like I said it and I did NOT write the Bible at all. Frankly, if I am in error on certain things I’d rather someone tell me the truth of the Word so I could be corrected than to keep walking in the dark because of tradition, complacency, not wanting to be offended, excuses, reputation, or whatever reason for my ignorance. I don’t care even about my own thoughts or experiences… I want THE TRUTH and if my thoughts or experiences don’t line up with the truth (the Word)… I want to change because as a Christian, I CHOSE to give up my life (my way of doing things, my opinion, my reputation, my self) and FOLLOW CHRIST and HIS WORD is THE STANDARD for me, because I as a Christian decided to follow Him. I am not saying its (and thats in reference not just to this topic but on life) easy but greater is HE that is us than he that is in the world. With man things are impossible but with GOD (oh man!) ALL things are possible!! I am so glad we serve a wonderful, loving God who is just and tells us the truth so we don’t have any excuse… He wrote to us so we could live life abundantly and that blows me away, He is the best!
I’d love nothing more than to elaborate on this subject with my own experience…but it looks like its almost all been said.
Dear Melodee, I’m afraid you have a very legalistic attitude. It’s not enough to quote scripture, you have to know how to apply it. The “other gospel” you refer to is one of legalism. Nobody can serve God according to “the letter” – thou shalt, thou shalt not. The letter kills, and does not produce life. Those who tried to pervert the gospel that Paul preached were Judaists (not liberalists), and as you know, received the strictist reprimand from Paul. The only true gospel is one of grace and unconditional love and acceptance on the basis of the finished work of Christ. It is this love of God that compels us to seek holiness and to put on Christ. When I read your remarks, I am put off by the harsh demands, and sense fear and condemnation. The law DOES NOT give life, in fact it gives rise to more sin because the flesh responds to the law in that way. Therefore, I can only honour God by accepting what HE has done. I pray you will find this liberation.
Wow, you sure raised some eyebrows with this blog post Shannon.
Here is a little window of my take on this. Much of what is being shared here seems to be coming from a female persuasion, so I’ll add a little guy insight to the mix. Not that it is needed; you ladies seem to be expressing your perspectives quite well.
The question Shannon posed pertaining to masturbation was “is it morally wrong, or perfectly normal?”
Sex is not morally wrong, but perfectly normal. However, it has the propensity to be misused until it becomes morally wrong.
Lust is not morally wrong, but perfectly normal. However, it has the propensity to be misused until it becomes morally wrong.
Even if masturbation can’t be proven to be morally wrong, I think we all agree that it has the propensity to be misused until it becomes morally wrong.
I feel the real issue was addressed by Shannon when she stated,
“You train your body as to what it finds pleasurable. If you walk into a marriage so addicted to masturbation that you would rather withdraw privately for your sexual satisfaction than share that passion and pleasure with your spouse, there’s something wrong with that picture.”
The human sex drive is powerful on purpose. It is designed by God to pull couples together for the establishment of a family and as PART of the foundation of intimacy for that couple in marriage. The sex drive, by design, is really less about RELEASE and more about EMBRACE. Let me state this again so we don’t miss it!
The sex drive, by design, is really LESS
about RELEASE, and MORE about EMBRACE.
Much of the defense for masturbation seems to link it to the body’s need for release. It is just seen as a biological method for relieving pent-up sexual desire. While scripture is silent about masturbation, it raises a lofty voice about sex and its function in and for marriage.
Something doesn’t have to be morally wrong for it to fall short of being the ideal and sexually healthy.
Is it sexually healthy when a married couple could be experiencing EMBRACE, but instead the sexual energy that could be bonding them together becomes used in individualistic ways through masturbation RELEASE?
Is it sexually healthy to be single and staying in on a Saturday night getting to know yourself through RELEASE when you could be out on a date increasing the opportunities in your life’s future for real marriage EMBRACE?
Culturally, we have elevated the URGE and pushed down the MERGE, and what we ELEVATE becomes what we CELEBRATE.
Shannon said it very well when she said,
“the real purpose of our sexual desires – to bring us closer to each other, and ultimately closer to God as we submit to His perfect plan of husbands and wives freely sharing their minds, bodies, hearts, and souls with one another – all without guilt, shame, or inhibition. Instead of individual intensity, we strive for genuine intimacy, or IN-TO-ME-SEE, because that’s far more fulfilling than just physical pleasure alone.”
None of all this we are reading about is based on a new argument. It is the same one that has been used for years to toss vibrators at our daughters’ vagina instead of virtues and values, and condoms at our sons’ crotch instead of control and character. It makes being a sensual being, “SINCE-u-al do it anyway” instead of, “SENSE-u-al do it anyway.”
The “SINCE-u-al do it anyway” argument promotes sexual activity based on a viewpoint that SINCE the body’s desire for sex is too powerful to expect it to be controlled, guided and repressed, it must be experienced at best. The “SENSE-u-al do it anyway” argument promotes sexual activity based on a belief that the body’s desire for sex is indeed powerful, but it makes SENSE to control, guide and even repress these desires for the best experience and direct them toward EMBRACE and not just RELEASE.
Because the sex drive is ultimately LESS about RELEASE and MORE about EMBRACE, I see masturbation as running a hundred miles an hour in the wrong direction. I think it is better to be directing our own desires towards DESIGN and also teach our children to fan the flames of EMBRACE in their lives as well.
Stanley J. Leffew
http://www.advice-for-lifetime-relationships.com
Katherine,
You can say I have a legalistic attitude. I take no offense to what you or anyone else says about me… in fact as I stated if I am in error… I WANT TO BE CORRECTED by the truth (the WORD)! Did you miss that? Did you even read what I wrote? Also, I understand that its not enough to quote scripture -faith without works is dead. I NEVER said anything about “other gospel”… go back and re-read my response… nope, nothing about “other gospel”. And, I will not respond to the rest of your comment because you obviously did not read or understand anything I was saying by the rest of your comment.
PS: The next time you call someone something or correct someone on something such as myself, please back up what you say. Don’t just tell me I have a legalistic attitude, point it out from what I’m saying (specifically) & if you were inferring that I am not applying it to my life or am applying it in the wrong way or taking scripture out of context– then PLEASE POINT / CORRECT me out w/the Word! And, please don’t respond back with I don’t want to offend you or some other lameness — I am ASKING for it, so BRING it. Like I said prior, I want GOD’S HEART, WORD, THOUGHT, OPINION, WISDOM, SAY SO on this topic masturbation and everything else. You may have a perspective, wisdom, light on an angle where I have MISSED it. But, what I don’t want or will not even bother with is just your opinion or an offense whether that is because something from scripture upset you or the boldness & authority from which I write… I’m not here to please people or cater to their own issues or grievances or be politically correct or sugar coated. I do, WELCOME your correction/rebuke on me that stems from the WORD though.
Stanley – well said!
Thank you Stanley, I wasn’t sure a male perspective was welcome.
To begin with, every scripture reference noted has to be stretched to include the act of masturbation. You could argue that watching TV satisfies the argument as well as masturbation or maybe girl watching at the mall. It is all what you make of it.
Everything exists on a continuum, from a very bad idea on one end to a very, very bad idea on the other. The point is that the extremes are bad. The teetotaler is as bad as the drunk. (Although I personally would rather be around the drunk, in moderation of course)
Teaching your children for a thousand plus years that masturbation is evil, shameful, and sinful and will keep you out of heaven is what creates the shame, not the act. On the other hand openly masturbating in front of other people doesn’t seem like a good idea either. We will save the discussion on the objective psychological/physiological effects of orgasm for another day. Either way maybe the truth is in the middle and we all get to choose (prayerfully) where we are on the continuum.
On a side note regarding scripture. A few years ago, due to an odd set of occurrences, I started learning Hebrew. I am not Jewish and I no longer call myself Christian, my study had other purposes. The one thing that stands out is that you absolutely cannot trust the translations. The original is ambiguous or as my teacher says “has multiple layers of meaning” and from what I have studied the answer is the same for Greek. So thinking that you somehow “know” the mind of G_d regarding the subject at hand indicates more about you than G_d.
Melodee, I can see you are very passionate about your faith, but by refusing to listen to other people who live their faith differently, you risk pushing people away from Christ.
There is no consensus on what being a Christian actually means. I believe Jesus was the Son of God, died for our sins, rose again ( in an nutshell! ). The rest, is a matter of interpretation. We are directed in faith in many ways. The Bible is *one* way. Prayer is another. I believe our conscience is God speaking to us, if we dare to listen. So, the Bible, with often vague meanings, or cultural context issues, is one important way, not the only one. I’ve prayer, I’ve spoken to men and women “of the cloth”, and I’ve listened to my heart and soul, open to God’s voice. I simply don’t see occasional masturbation as an issue.
I do think your passion is preventing you from reading and giving what I say a chance. You seem very biased, so much so that you have failed to understand what I said about the woman whose husband was addicted to porn. If you read the previous blog of Shannon’s that I commented on, I said it *is* a problem when someone rejects their spouse in favor of masturbation ( although I would agree that’s mainly an issue of emotoinal heath and respect, not so much sexual neccessarily ). What I said was that you can’t confuse masturbation with porn. Many people mastrubate without porn, and the two issues are not one in the same. I never said it was okay that he rejected her ( this is an example of your bias and inability to read objectively ).
And while you talk alot about the word, masturbation is not mentioned in the Bible. None of the scriptures you quoted really supported your anti-masturbation argument at all. There is no logical or Biblical argument against masturbation that I have seen. So, my theory is we are back at societies need to control female sexuality.
I struggled while single and newly Born Again. At times it kept me from church, school, or other important gatherings (because I would get tempted just before I was about to leave). I also had to fantasize to climax (and being single there is no marriage partner to fantasize about –Jesus said, If you lust in your eyes you have committed adultery). The bottom line, it was giving my flesh the reins. The bible says in Genesis “Sin is crouching at your door, but you must master it”. Well, Masturbation was mastering me. Anyway, after I got married… the temptation came again… but knowing my godly husband was in agreement that it was NOT God’s way…I vowed to not continue. Until one night….. well I started…and then I had a choice.. to give my flesh that meal or starve it for the sake of my marriage’s future (marriage w/hubby and marriage with Christ). Well I had to pull my hand away… and it was HARD!! ……if you want to stop… don’t say, “I’ll wait for God’s Grace and then I’ll stop”, because it’s just the opposite: Stop and then God’s Grace comes. See, His Grace didn’t pull my hand away (I had a choice to make)… but the second I CHOSE to stop, then HIS GRACE RESCUED ME…In every temptation God leads a way out -Corinthians. I can say I am masturbation free.. and it helps me live more victoriously. What you feed grows what you starve dies…..remember that.
Oh, and those of you who think Shannon is compromising and not sticking to the black and white truth… I thank you for your zeal (there is much watered down Christianity: music, books,etc. that can seem worldly)… but I learned something profound recently… Shannon “Inspires” instead of “Requires”. those that have ears let them hear….
Maria,
You stated the following:
“I think it’s also very, very important not to confuse pornography with mastrubation. In these conversations, they seem to be linked, but they are not. Pornography is wrong. It degrades the women in the porn, the men using the porn, and the wives of those men. It is destructive to marriage and families. Whether a person mastrubates while using porn is not the issue. Just looking at porn is showing complete disrespect for your spouse and your marriage.”
My response:
“Maria, are you serious? Do you not think the precious young lady (Liz) isn’t being degraded by her husband every time he rejects her sexually due to her not being competitive enough with his masturbation experiences? So, porn is wrong but masturbation is all natural and none harmful? Wow, I really don’t get that at all… I’m trying to get where you coming from logically (not even hitting biblically) and it just doesn’t make sense.”
You then stated,” I never said it was okay that he rejected her ( this is an example of your bias and inability to read objectively )” I never said you said that it was okay that he was rejecting her, so perhaps you are the one biased and unable to read objectively? lol Or better yet, maybe, its me miscommunicating to you?
It came across to me that you were saying porn is wrong and degrades women & masturbation is fine and doesn’t degrade women. So, I thought well thats stupid/crazy (thinking of what Liz wrote prior) hence I asked you questions. I have not read Shannon’s previous blogs/comments so I did not see what you wrote previously, first time commentator. 
So, I agree with you– I didn’t understand what you communicated and you did not understand what I communicated- agreed.
Also, I never said (re-read if you don’t believe) I don’t listen to people of other faiths… I said, I do not (and still do not) care what people think, opinions, perspectives & experiences (including MY OWN) if it disagrees or is contrary to the Word of God. Let me say it another way (this being purely example)- if my peer murders someone for whatever reason (annoyed, envious, scared… whatever) and that is their experience, they think murder is okay. I do not care what they think, their opinion, perspective or what have you (keep in mind- this is in regards to the sin murder, not them or who they murdered). The Bible addresses that and I’m not for it. I never said I don’t listen to people… I am saying on the topic of any sin (or anything else) my standard aims to be the Bibles not myself, my parents, my friends, experts, authors, entertainers, comedians, sports players, church members…only the Bible. I am open to listening to others’ thoughts, insights, wisdom from a Bible perspective not just their own airs, opinions or perspectives.
The Bible does not say the word abortion in it. So, does that mean that it isn’t murder? Is the baby not really a baby and just a blob of tissue?
“The Lord gave me this message:
“I knew you before I formed you in your mother’s womb.
Before you were born I set you apart
and appointed you as my prophet to the nations.” Jeremiah 1:4-5
Now, it does not say the word “abortion” but God says He knew Jeremiah before he was even formed in his momma’s womb so it is obvious life begins before conception in the womb. So, could this mean supporters for abortion are anti-baby, anti-child, pro-death/murder? This is the 21st century and their are a plethora of sins (psychologists & so called experts are coming up w/new names for sin, sickness & such daily) that the Bible may not directly say but it does not mean they aren’t sin, it doesn’t mean its right, & it doesn’t mean God doesn’t address them because they aren’t said the precise name/word that is used today in the 21st century (as the book of Ecclesiastes states nothing is new under the sun). I am pro-baby, pro-life, pro-child and I am also for love and not hate which masturbation is a form of. In addition to masturbation, another sexual perversion &/ addiction is sexting, heard of it? I bet thats not in the Bible either but is it okay? Hardly. You know my name is not in the Bible. So, does scripture even apply to me? Is it even worth living my life according to a book that doesn’t even have my name it? How do I know that its applicable? Heck, its the 21st century and as a 22 year old single woman do I really think a holy book that doesn’t even have my name or some of the gadgets & words of “this age” in it reliable? Do you see where I am going… masturbation is addressed in some of the verses I placed in past comments but if your looking for the word masturbation, you won’t find it in those verses or the rest of Bible. In fact, regardless of what you thought of the Biblical verses I placed in my comment do your own research and find out for yourself the Truth. One thing I keep in mind is that when I stand before God on the day of Judgment, I will stand before God for my life, my actions & I will be held accountable before God (on everything) and without His grace & mercy & Jesus… I would be destined for hell. Jesus loves me so much and He is so wonderfully good to me..giving His precious, innocent life and taking ALL my sin, junk, mess on the cross so I would not have to be in bondage to it–oh man! that blows me away- I want to please Him. I refuse to take on anything that He took for me at the Cross… because to me that is like spitting in His face saying He wasn’t good enough and He is more than enough! I don’t want to be borderline on anything, I refuse to be in bondage to anything and I refuse to allow Satan to steal, kill and destroy my life when Jesus came that I might have life and have it more abundantly (John 10:10). Since Jesus paid the price for our salvation, healing, deliverance, prosperity … what’s masturbation? Nothing. What’s any sexual perversion and addiction? Nothing. What’s aids? Nothing. What’s cancer? Nothing. What’s poverty? Nothing. Jesus took it all at the Cross. If we dare believe and act in faith in the God we preach, the Bible we read.. oh the awesomeness of our mighty God would show up and out!
Further, as you said (and I agree), “while I do talk alot about the word…”, you really don’t. So if you respond to me again- could you please bring the Word into it? It can be whatever you feel relates, something so random/spontaneous (not even related) or whatever… I just don’t like bouncing opinions around (off of me or anyone else) because I for one am not smart enough to answer the questions of this age so it can be a major waste of time– life is but a vapor– let’s get God’s eye view on it (masturbation/whatever the subject) the best we can through the Word.
Melodee, my main point is interpreting the Bible is *subjective*, and that’s why we disagree. It doesn’t mean my practice of Christianity is any less correct than yours, if I seek wise council, pray, go to church and read the Bible.
That is why I’m not bringing Bible verses into it. You and I interpret the Bible differently, and that’s *okay*! But, it makes quoting scripture pointless, in this instance. For example, your quote about ” I knew you before you were formed “, is beautiful and poetic, and I think refers to our souls. I think it has nothing to do with abortion ( and I am actually pro-choice ).
So you see, we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Maria,
I am not going to address what you stated about your main point because to me your prior comments state otherwise.
I will say, Christianity is not customizable to what I decide to believe or pick out from the Bible or what you decide to believe or pick out from the Bible. Further, for clarification purposes the verses I stated from above is not “my quote” it is Jeremiah writing what God told him. I made none of that up. I am not going to get into a discussion about the horrific act, abortion because if the Bible is not going to be used then it is utterly pointless in discussing.
I will leave verses that do apply though, for you to think upon:
“Now suppose two men are fighting, and in the process they accidentally strike a pregnant woman so she gives birth prematurely.[a] If no further injury results, the man who struck the woman must pay the amount of compensation the woman’s husband demands and the judges approve. But if there is further injury, the punishment must match the injury: a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise.” -Exodus 21:22-25
“You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother’s womb.
Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.” -Psalms 139:13-14
“For God created both me and my servants.
He created us both in the womb.” -Job 31:15
“For I was born a sinner—
yes, from the moment my mother conceived me.” -Psalms 51:5
“But he told me, ‘You will become pregnant and give birth to a son. You must not drink wine or any other alcoholic drink nor eat any forbidden food. For your son will be dedicated to God as a Nazirite from the moment of his birth until the day of his death.’” -Judges 13:7
“At the sound of Mary’s greeting, Elizabeth’s child leaped within her, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.” -Luke 1:41
“Then Pharaoh, the king of Egypt, gave this order to the Hebrew midwives, Shiphrah and Puah: 16 “When you help the Hebrew women as they give birth, watch as they deliver.[a] If the baby is a boy, kill him; if it is a girl, let her live.” 17 But because the midwives feared God, they refused to obey the king’s orders. They allowed the boys to live, too.
18 So the king of Egypt called for the midwives. “Why have you done this?” he demanded. “Why have you allowed the boys to live?”
19 “The Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women,” the midwives replied. “They are more vigorous and have their babies so quickly that we cannot get there in time.”
20 So God was good to the midwives, and the Israelites continued to multiply, growing more and more powerful.” – Exodus 1:15-20
“There are six things the Lord hates—
no, seven things he detests:
haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that kill the innocent,
a heart that plots evil,
feet that race to do wrong,
a false witness who pours out lies,
a person who sows discord in a family.” -Proverbs 6:16-19
Maria, I am just leaving a few verse that apply to the horrendous act of abortion. I am not leaving them so you can respond back with your own analysis or so we can have a heated discussion, just for you to think upon… the Bible addresses that sin more than just in Jeremiah.
WOW!!!!Shannon, first of all I love you! Thank you for reaching out to us with your giftings God gave you.Here is my take on masturbation. I believe that any addiction is wrong. Anything that controls you aside from the Holy Spirit is wrong. I am not addicted to masturbation but part of fulfilling my husband’s desires for our “marriage bed” is that I do this with him watching. I feel no guilt. I don’t think of anything during this time but achieving orgasm. No fantasies involving other people. My husband doesnt masturbate. He has no need to. We don’t have any issues with pornography either. There are also times when he achieves orgasm before me and can’t finish. So, I finish myself. Maybe if more women would be willing to fulfill their husband’s fantasies would prevent affairs. How sad that some of us would expend so much energy justifying our frigidity with scripture & judging our fellow sisters in Christ than putting that energy into our marriages and marriage beds. Thank you again for all you do Shannon!
Melodee, LOL! again, you’re completely missing the point. Your “truth” is different from my truth. We can both read the Bible and see different things from it. And let’s be honest; none of us take all the rules in the Bible seriously or even attempt to follow them. Do you eat pork or shellfish? do you mix meat and milk? Do you cover your head in church, wear blended fabric or speak in church? Do you even have sex while menstruating? if you do, do you sacrifice a dove afterwards?
Oh, but not *those* rules. They aren’t important because_________. The same reasons we Christians look objectively at some of those Old Testament laws, are the same reasons I may have a different view of certain Bible verses or even laws.
a dialogue can only exist when people talk and *listen*. Melodee, you quoting Bible verses at me tells me very little, and makes your arguements seem weak. If *you* believe a certain thing and want to live a certain way, I 100% support you. But it’s very, very condscending to try and correct my faith, based on your own perception of “truth”. You are speaking, but not listening. I simply don’t believe the Bible literally, as you seem to. The Holy Spirit is among us, and God’s voice is in us. Prayer and a heart open to God’s will are as valuable to faith as the Bible.
Shannon ~
Thank you for putting this important conversation on the table.
Hi Shannon! I get your Hot Tips sent to my inbox and was so encouraged by your latest tip and the incredible wisdom that Stanley Leffew followed up with on the ’sticky subject’ of Masturbation.
I am a pastors kid, have been in church since I was an egg and have always wondered what to say or what to do when confronted with the topic of masturbation, vibrators and the like! I know that I personally feel the mental battle this behaviour creates is a big one and often brings defeat rather than wholeness. Now I have a resource with which to reference and can provide another point of view on the subject that so many Christians are afraid to discuss or worse still…won’t discuss!
My husband and I have been so blessed by The Sexually Confident Wife and would recommend the read to every married couple. It has created in me a desire to be with my husband both physically and emotionally and freed me of so many of my hang ups and so called Christian notions which only caused fear, pain and witholding (which nearly cost us our marriage).
Thanks again…keep pushing the envelope!
I’ve read all of the “Every Man’s” books in that series, love them!
When I was reading Every Woman’s Marriage and it spoke of masturbation, I was SHOCKED (completely!) when I read the part that basically laughs and says c’mon ladies don’t kid yourselves, you know you are having dirty thoughts if you masturbate.
Honestly, I was horrified to read that. Simply because the “thought” to do something like that has never, ever crossed my mind. I re-read that paragraph several times trying to figure out why it would say such a thing (and admit to being slightly offended!). I am really not a naive person! But putting two and two together (chastising women for doing it = most women must be doing it = it must really *do* something for women….), it actually encouraged me to try visualising. Which has really bothered me ever since, and am disapointed that the concept is in the book at all.
Here again, in this article, we read the same thing – that women don’t masturbate without thinking impure thoughts. I think that is a huge assumption. I have very open relationships with my sisters, and many female friends – and while we have shared very personal histories, only 1 of them admitted to (admitted, but still…we’ve shared other much more private information) blatant fantisization during masturbation.
I just think it is wrong to imply that masturbation = fantasy about impure things. When/if I masturbate, I think of nothing except getting it done.
My husband *is* an officer in the U.S. Army. Later this year he will be deployed and he’ll be gone for over 12 months. Honestly, I am pretty sure I could go for much longer than 12 months without masturbating (since he’ll be gone). It isn’t a problem when he isn’t around – however,at times the conversations we’ll have will most likely lead us both to be frustrated, ahem, with our distance. These are the times that personally we’ve agreed it is “okay”. I don’t think it is necessary completely, but it does help both of us “cope” with life. The release is just helpful at times.
I don’t think it should be assumed that all people use images or ideas while masturbating. Some people just do it. When distance is a factor, as well as months and months and months of being impossibly far away – depending on the couple, sometimes it really can be okay to masturbate.
Thanks you for this post shannon. My husband is currently overseas right now and I truly feel you hit this topic well. You discussed both sides and have made my mind open up to other sides of it. I will not say if I am for or against it however I will say that the responses people have given sadden me. This I dont believe was handled well by many people who posted. I feel most should look into their hearts and look to God to see how they would feel about their posts now. God handles all judgement. “Ye without sin cast the first stone” I will not cast a stone but thank you so much for giving me food for thought. And hope everyone else will come away from this post with knowledge and maybe a little compassion. thank you again shannon
Ang & ‘AC’…you girls are some the bravest on this planet. You are not only brave you are beautiful and I admire your courage to stay faithful to your spouses whilst they are deployed overseas.
Good on you for sharing your stories and yes, reminding us that God does handle all judgment and not one of us is perfect is so true. Some of our girlfriends here have gotten of topic and I appreciate your help in reminding us that Grace is not ours to give but ours to receive.
I hope your men are safe and are home with you both very soon.
Shannon, thank you so much for your insight.
I come from a missionary family where topics like this one were not discussed. My husband also is in the military and has been deployed for 10 months with still a few left to go. When he is home we do not feel the need to satisfy ourselves individually, we fulfill each other’s needs. But when he is gone we have an agreement that if we feel the need, it is fine with both of us.
I also wanted to say that Melodee, it is because of the spiteful and degrading comments from women like you that I have not entered the doors of a church for over a year.
Dear Liz, I appreciate your outlook on this and respect the understanding and openness between you and your husband. I apologize on behalf of the church for the hurt and disappointment you feel. I have also been saddened by Melodee’s comments, but sensing that she has her own problems, I have let discussions with her drop. Please don’t let people like this rob you of the joy and satsifaction of church fellowship. You CAN find a fulfilling fellowship, even though there will always be people who disappoint you. God bless you!
I would like to quote a good friend of mine when she told me that “when seeing and quoting the bible it is very easy to only see one verse and not the whole context.” She also told me and I have found it true that the Word is a living word, it changes and becomes more comlex with every step of my walk with the Lord. Jesus fights satan with quotes from the bible, however, satan also quotes the bible and uses his interpretation for his own needs and Jesus never waivers because in the whole bible is where we learn the meaning of what God wants us to do. God’s words never changes however its meaning to each is ever changing. I love this about the Lord! I can read the same verse daily and each day it applies in new and wonderful ways. Isnt our God and amazing one? God knows what each one of us needs to hear from him and points us in the right direction for which he desires us to go. The bible is our base and He provides guidance from there. And if something isnt clear cut to you, pray on it because if you seek his guidance he is overjoyed to make it clear to you. I am grateful for that.
Hi all,
I must say that reading the posts on this topic so far has been eye-opening. So many of the responses have touched my heart while others, to be honest, have apalled me. Melodee’s posts are consistently judgemental and close-minded, and even though she was not responding to anything I had posted, I must admit that I feel insulted on behalf of Shannon and all the other women whom she has presumed to be holier than.
Let me ask you a question Melodee. Why are you on this blog? You have said that you are single so is it safe to assume that you do not fully understand sexuality? But you are a woman, and you are a human being, and you are 22 so surely you must be somewhat, if not fully in touch with your sexuality. If not, perhaps you can quote a scripture explaining why. Honey, I’m sure Jesus is pleased with your absolute desire to please HIM and live your life according to HIS word, but believe me when I say that HE has no appreciation for your disrespect and disregard for others. When you love the Lord, you love others the way HE loves them. So ask yourself, would Jesus answer these posts the way you have?
“Love your neighbor as yourself” the Bible says and that may be exactly what you are doing. If that is the case then you might need to work on loving yourself first. God created you with a brain which is wired to manufacture opinions and ideas so trust me, HE will not send you to hell just because you express them. I believe, and I’m sure we all believe, that the Bible is the indomitable word of God. Every word in it is sacred and true because it was inspired by God. But we know that it was transcribed by humans and so it lends itself to intepretation in some areas. It is true, the Bible does not mention masturbation, sexting, or even smoking so let’s say that strictly speaking, all these things are not sin. However, Paul does write that all things are permissible but not all things are beneficiary. How do we ascertain which things are beneficiary and which are not? For one, we have common sense, but more importantly, there is the Bible and that still small voice that is the Holy Spirit. Do not get so stuck on the “legal” aspects of scripture that you miss “the voice”.
You are 22 and I am sure that most of the women writing on here are older, more mature, and more experienced (yes, quote scripture and tell me what Paul told Timothy about age…lol) and so they approach the topic with more insight than you have. I know you are convinced that all the insight you need is in the Bible, and I would agree to a point. The fact is that life experiences do offer important insights that add richness to our understanding of The Word. I would advice you to learn from the wisdom of your elders rather than despise them.
I think your opinions (because yes, that’s what they are) would be welcomed more if you used the right tone (and I am sure you could quote Jesus calling out the pharasees, Paul calling the Galatians “foolish”, Jesus clearing out the temple, and so on as reasons why it is ok for you to speak so harshly to us) Right now you just sound self-righteous and sanctimonious. You are only 22, and I hate to break it to you but you don’t know everything, and you are not the final authority on what the Bible means. Pray and seek the Lord’s guidance in your Christian walk because I personally am not feeling the love (and don’t tell me you don’t care cos if there’s one scripture we all know, it is definitely “God is Love” John 4, right?)
Thankyou Shannon for posting this blog. This topic is not something that is talked about or discussed very frequently within Christian circles. I think it should be, because as I have discovered (from my own struggles with this and through talking with other women I know), it is something that is more common than we think. I truly believe that the “hush-hush” approach to “sticky” topics such as masturbation have led many women (including myself) to feel extreme guilt and ashamedness with so many unanswered questions. This has been something that I have struggled with for the past 4 years, and I have gone from one end of the spectrum to the other in regards to it being “right” or not. I have come to believe for myself that participating in this act, specifically as a single, un-married woman is not living in a way that is pleasing to God. I am so thankful for God’s grace that has covered me, and I know that He gives strength to heal and overcome temptations.
All this to say, thanks Shannon for bringing this out there. I truly believe that if this was addressed more openly within the church that there would be more understanding and openness regarding those who struggle.
Thank you , Shannon, for this article. I struggled with masturbation when I was 14 which was more discovering how my body worked than anything–my mom was never open with talking to me about sex. I picked it up again when I was 16, and it always left me feeling very guilty (and in physical pain because I really had no idea what I was doing) Then when I was 18 and in my summer before college, I got a laptop and learned more about masturbation via the internet. I learned the human viewpoint side and never thought twice. It wasn’t long before I had my first orgasm in the shower and from then on I was hooked.
I can’t begin to describe the guilt that I feel every time it’s over. I’m not married, only 19, and I know in my heart that it’s a sin, although I’d like to believe all that I hear about it being healthy for girls to discover how their body works and how to achieve and orgasm before they get married. I couldn’t disagree more. To know that I’ve deprived my future husband the joy of being the first to bring me that point of total physical happiness, to know that the fun of figuring everything out as a married couple won’t be the same is almost unbearable.
I don’t see anything wrong with masturbation in marriage as long as both husband and wife are ok with it. But I honestly believe that, although the actual act is not a sin, all that comes with it outside of marriage (imagining someone other than your husband since you don’t have one, becoming somewhat obsessed with it) are sins. That’s just me.
To all of the moms out there that have never struggled with masturbation, come to the conclusion of weather it’s right or wrong and talk to your daughter about it as she enters her teenage years. My mom was very uncomfortable talking with me about it and actually laughed at some of the questions that I would ask her as a thirteen/fourteen year old. It hurts to not have any women n my life that I feel comfortable talking with my addiction to.
Does anyone have any books you recommend on this topic? I have Every Young Woman’s Battle but I kind of feel like I’ve outgrown that one.
Emily,
thank you fore sharing your story. I totally agree with you! I too have struggled (and still do to an extent) with this for the past 4 or 5 years….it is not something that I discovered when I was a young teen, but something that I discovered as a 20 year old woman. It started off as something innocent and turned into something I “just had to have”. The feeling of guilt and shame that always follows is something that haunts me. I am deeply saddened that I too, have robbed my husband of this pleasure and although I know there is forgiveness (I know I have been completely forgiven by my Heavenly Father), it is still hard to deal with.
Know that your Heavenly Father loves you, His grace and forgiveness are real. He is faithful! I have learned about his faithfulness despite my unfaithfulness. His grace is my stronghold when I am feeling weak with temptation. He truly does provide ways of escape.
“Every Woman’s Battle” is a lot about things that married women deal with, but I have read it as a single woman and it has helped me SO much! There are some specific parts that deal with the topic of masturbation. It gives some clarity and guidance, with a lot of encouragement, on the subject! I know it feels to desperately want a woman to talk these things with. I haven’t found too many that I am comfortable with talking about my struggle…but I have been able to share with a couple who have been able to pray with and for me. That definitely helps a lot! Know that I am praying for you. Stay strong friend, the Lord will faithfully carry you through!
Thank you, E. I have Every Woman’s Battle on hold for me at a bookstore and plan on picking it up tomorrow. Hearing encouragement from others that I’ve anonymously shared my story with helps! And of course, knowing that my Father forgave me even before I started and knows what I’m going through and how long it will take me to recover from it.
If we share masturbation with our spouse it isn’t masturabation, as Doug Rosenau mentioned. Always be aware that he is NOT a board certified sex therapist with a Ph.D. in clinical psychology as I am. It is well documented that we have different levels of hormonal need and that most couples are not perfectly matched as to their frequency as far as orgasmic needs are concerned. I do feel that occasional self relief when the other partner isn’t available or interested isn’t a breach of purity or contrary to the Lord’s Plan for us as long as it isn’t hidden from your spouse and doesn’t result in denial of intimacy when one’s partner is available and willing. In the case of women, the more we have orgasms the easier they are to achieve, so it actually fosters and enhances our intimacy and interest in orgasmic partner sex to stimulate ourselves when he isn’t available or interested.
HERE’S A QUESTION – WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ONE SPOUSE IS IS NOT ABLE TO PERFORM SEXUALLY BECAUSE OF SOME PHYSICAL OR MEDICAL REASON and will never be able to become intimate with their mate?
Intimacy is a large part of the marriage. I believe that Stanley said it best. “Sex is not morally wrong, but perfectly normal. However, it has the propensity to be misused until it becomes morally wrong”.
Shannon, I applaud you for this topic, it is one that’s never discussed in Christian circles. I especially like that you and your husband took the issue before God and agreed based on what you interpeted from the Word.
My husband was in the military and was away for long periods of time. Yes, I choose to masterbate, however, my husband and I, sat down talked about it and made our decision. I guarantee you that my thoughts were only of him. I applaud those military spouses who are committed to their husbands. As a military spouse we have far bigger concerns, than made to feel guilty because we miss the intimate part of marriage.
This is a great posting, and one I will be sharing with our woman’s group. Christ commands us to love one another and if you see your fellow saint fall, pray for them, not judge.
Shannon,
I really appreciate the way that you approached this subject. I have been on both sides of this argument and have really wrestled with this issue over the years. I was 11 or 12 when I started masturbating. Sex, puberty, and things of that nature were not openly discussed in our household (though they weren’t avoided or discouraged, either). Mostly, I was just embarrassed to talk about it with my mom. I asked her if I could check a book out of the library instead, and ask her questions if I had any. She agreed. There was a section in there about masturbation and it endorsed it as natural and okay – unless your priest or pastor had said otherwise. Well… I grew up in a very conservative church, so you had better believe that there had never been any sermons on masturbation! I naively experimented and quickly became addicted.
From that time until I was in college, I struggled with overwhelming shame and guilt that paralyzed my walk with God and kept me from seeking counsel from those older and wiser. I would go days, weeks, months, or even a year at a time without masturbating, then I would cave. I know now that guilt and shame that paralyze come from the enemy, while conviction that motivates me to change comes from the Lord. I didn’t understand God’s grace and forgiveness, and as a result I felt unworthy of Him. I kept thinking that if I could get this habit under control, THEN I could approach Him and seek forgiveness and freedom from the bondage I was in.
When I got to college, God began to teach me about His character. I realized that without God’s help, I would NEVER walk free from this addiction. I began to recognize that the paralyzing shame and fear came from the enemy, and began to seek TRUTH about God’s character in the Word. I confessed my struggles to my fiance, who challenged me with truth from the Word and shared his own struggles with shame as a result of masturbation (note: by God’s grace and LOTS of boundaries that we set, we were able to maintain a pure physical relationship before marriage… however, I would highly recommend to someone in a similar position to involve someone outside the relationship for the sake of accountability and perspective). Slowly, I began to walk in free from the bondage of addiction.
Now, 4 years later, I can say that God has been faithful. I still deal with the consequences of my sin (not the act of masturbation itself, but my addiction and my pride in refusing to ask God to help me walk free of it) – my husband and I are still in the process of retraining our bodies to find pleasure in one another (it’s been a longer process for me than for him, which I think is typical). We do engage in manual stimulation, but I do think that when we are together, it’s a different thing entirely. I still struggle sometimes with the temptation to satisfy my desires apart from my husband (like Shannon and her husband, we have a “no masturbation” rule, too) and have to confess when I fail.
However, as I have come to understand God’s character even more and have spent more and more time in His word, I find myself less and less paralyzed by shame and more sensitive to the spirit’s conviction. It is interesting – shame and guilt begin to creep in even during the act of masturbation and overwhelm afterward, while conviction can turn my heart to obedience even before I complete the act. There is such freedom in obedience!
I would encourage young ladies out there to begin to ask God to help you walk free of masturbation if you no longer have control over your impulses. I would often find comfort in masturbation if I was lonely, hurt, sad, tired, etc. rather than turning to God or to other believers. I would encourage you to seek out truth in Scripture and ask God to help you identify shame that comes from the enemy vs. conviction that comes from the Spirit, and ask Him to give you the strength and help that you need to walk in freedom.
I would also caution those who engage in masturbation and do not see it as sin – while I would agree with you in saying that the act, in and of itself, is not inherently sinful, I think the enemy can use it in a powerful way. In my case, it was a subtle enslavement over a long period of time as I became less and less inclined to exercise self control. The danger in masturbation is that it is such a private act and there is generally little or no accountability.
Lastly – to all the moms out there – please speak openly with your children about this issue, even though I know it can be uncomfortable. Had I been warned about the addictive potential of masturbation beforehand, I may never have ventured down this path (or I may have been able to exercise greater self control, thus keeping myself from addiction).
Thank you, Shannon, for opening this discussion. It is refreshing to see a balanced perspective on masturbation, and it is healing to be able to share some of my experience.
I really dont see what is so wrong with masturbation in marriage if the 2 people involved agree to incorporate it as part of their sexual routine. What are people with high sex drives meant to do when their spouses are away for wxtremely long periods of time and its practically impossible for them to go with their spouses e.g a spouse in the millitary. Is the person meant to ‘burn’ with passion while stuggling for self restraint? The bible encorages short abstainance for periods of prayer not long abstainance. If one’s spouse is away at war for 2 years for example, is he/she required to abstain for 2 years without finding fufilment through masturbation.
My spouse has been away for three years (not and the only reason I have stayed faithful ( is that I have masturbated to tI am not one of those women who have issues with sex, I believe its a gift from God, I have gratefully received my gift and I enjoy it)
I really dont see what is so wrong with masturbation in marriage if the 2 people involved agree to incorporate it as part of their sexual routine. What are people with high sex drives meant to do when their spouses are away for extremely long periods of time and its practically impossible for them to go with their spouses e.g a spouse in the millitary. Is the person meant to ‘burn’ with desire while stuggling for self restraint? The bible encorages short abstainance for periods of prayer not long abstainance. If one’s spouse is away at war for 2 years for example, is he/she required to abstain for 2 years without finding fufilment through masturbation.
My spouse has been away for three years (not my choice but there’s nothing I can do about it) and the only reason I have stayed faithful is that I have masturbated to ease things up a bit, If I dont I WILL be opening myself up for temptation of adultery. I happen to have a very healthy apetite and if masturbation will keep me from adultery and sinning, then I certainly will and will not feel remorseful because there’s nothing wrong with it as long as I am thinking only of my spouse
I simply don’t understand how masturbation ever enters into the realm of sin in and of itself. It is the lust that is the issue. I masturbate because I have sexual NEEDS that simply go unmet as a single Christian.
Ladies, nobody can turn their sex drive on and off like a light switch. If I don’t masturbate, I get frustrated, irritable, depressed, and lust much more than if I don’t. I find many of my thoughts turning to sex if I don’t masturbate. I also find concentrating difficult, and I find myself being attracted to women I usually wouldn’t give a second thought to. [Not a good thing, because I am so sex hungry anything seems appealing.]
Yes, anyone can make a well reasoned argument that no one should ever masturbate.
But let’s say it this way “You should never have an orgasm unless you are married and with your spouse.”
Now doesn’t that sound absolutely stupid? Of course it does. As a 35 year old male, I cant just stop my sex drive.
My wife left me in May 2004, and I have not even held hands with a woman since. There are times I feel like I am going to go insane with sexual hunger, but all I can do is masturbate if I am to stay sexually pure.
That’s all I can say. For someone to tell me that it is God’s will that single people, especially those who know what sexual gratification feels like, to suffer with the torment of unfulfilled needs with no righteous way out, I just cant buy it.