Teens & Sex Toys: A Sticky Subject
Many readers have emailed lately asking what I thought of the recent Oprah episode where Dr. Laura Berman discussed what all we should be telling our pre-teen and teenage daughters about sex. I thought I’d go ahead and blog about it, because I’d love to hear your feedback too.
I agree wholeheartedly with Dr. Berman that we need to open up lines of communication with our children by giving them permission to ask anything, telling the truth about where babies come from, preparing them for the temptations that lay ahead for every human being, etc. But when the suggestion was made that moms purchase a clitoral vibrator for their 15-17 year old daughters, I almost choked on my chocolate. If you saw it, you probably did a double-take and rewinded the TiVo tape to make sure you heard it right, too. If you didn’t see the show, allow me to explain Dr. Berman’s reasoning for such a recommendation. She says that when a hairy-legged boy is kissing on your daughter and awakening all of these sexual urges in her, she will most likely think, “THIS BOY is what makes me feel this way, so I must allow THIS BOY to take me where my body longs to go.” But that if our daughters are equipped with the “tools” they need to bring themselves to orgasm, it will be easier for her to walk away from that boy with the confidence that she doesn’t need him to satisfy her because she can take matters into her own hands (pardon the pun).
I’m pretty sure we can all agree that for a teenage girl to give in to sexual activity with a teenage boy could do far more damage than good. That’s a no-brainer. But is sending her the message that “whenever you get sexually aroused you HAVE to do something about it, so here’s a vibrator” really the best way to help her exercise self-control? I don’t think so. While occasional masturbatory experiences are a normal part of growth & development, I think encouraging frequent self-gratification is really just throwing gasoline on a fire. The more someone fuels their own sexual desires (especially at this immature age), the more I believe they’ll be tempted to take things to the next level, and the next, which will ultimately include involving the sexual partner that you were trying to discourage her involvement with in the first place.
While it may shock you, I invited my 17-year old daughter to watch that Oprah episode with me so we could discuss the controversial parts openly. I’ve discussed every other sexual topic under the sun with her at various stages in her development. She has attended dozens of my BEST SEX Youth Conferences, helped me edit Every Young Woman’s Battle, helped me write Preparing Your Daughter for Every Woman’s Battle, so taking our intimate discussions to the next level seemed natural (especially now that she’s dating one of those hairy-legged boys). I was delighted to learn that she felt the same way I did. We talked about how vibrators should be “marital aids” for couples who mutually agree on their use, not “masturbation aids” for single teens. Think about it… if a young woman walks into marriage already addicted to using a vibrator to achieve orgasm, how is that going to make her husband feel? What if he has a problem with it? Shouldn’t he be involved in the decision about whether to include something like this in the marriage bed, since it involves him too? While there’s certainly nothing in the Bible that leads me to believe that the use of vibrators is sinful, it IS a matter of personal conscience, and while some couples are perfectly comfortable with them, others are not, and we need to respect one another’s comfort zones in marriage. After all, sexual intimacy isn’t just about achieving pleasure for ourselves. It’s about providing pleasure to your spouse, and operating within your spouse’s comfort zone is key to creating the safety and relational security that is vital in a healthy marriage.
Oprah’s friend, Gayle King, responded to Dr. Berman’s suggestion with the comment, “Oh, no! Too much information!” Oprah replied, “But teenage girls already HAVE this information!” Granted, most older teenage girls have heard about vibrators. So perhaps we should be talking with them and answering their questions. But I don’t think we should be recommending them, or providing them. I think we need to encourage self-control, and coach them on how to delay that gratification until they can enjoy it freely, without shame or inhibition, with their husbands someday.
A mom in the audience said that she was listening to Dr. Berman’s suggestion and considering how to apply it to the raising of her teenage son. “I’m thinking that purchasing a vibrator for a daughter would be the equivalent of purchasing pornography for my son, and I can’t fathom that this would be the right thing to me to do to raise a sexually healthy son.” I agree wholeheartedly. Our kids have a hard enough time resisting sexual temptation without unnecessary introductions to pornography and marital aids. Let’s not make their battle harder than it needs to be. Teens need to be taught self-control, not self-gratification. Frequent self-gratification will most likely turn them into “selfish lovers,” and our future sons-in-law and daughters-in-law deserve better.
So there you have it — my response to that particular Oprah episode. Sticky subject, I know. And I don’t expect that we will all agree on every nuance of this still-taboo topic, and that’s okay. Everyone’s sexuality is as unique as their fingerprint. But my hope is that we can respectfully discuss our own opinions and convictions with the goal of encouraging each other in how to raise sexually healthy daughters.
P.S. It’s still not too late to register yourself and/or your 6th – 12th grade child for the upcoming May 2nd BEST SEX Youth Conference at Lindale High School (90 minutes east of Dallas, 90 minutes west of Shreveport, 15 minutes north of Tyler). Just go to www.shannonethridge.com to register, or email your questions about the conference (where we’ll be teaching young people how to have the BEST SEX… by waiting until marriage!) to me personally at shannon@shannonethridge.com. There’s also a parent session on Thursday Night, April 30th, at Fellowship of Prairie Creek Church in Lindale. I’d love to meet you there!
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I actually am not a fan of Oprah but when I heard about this show I decided to check it out and see what the show really entailed. .not just go by what the previews and teasers were showing. I was appalled and being the mother of three young daughters now have my eyes opened to what I will be facing in a few years. The encouragement of sexual freeness.. anything goes.. please yourself. .make yourself feel good is not an answer to not letting a boy make you feel good. Its sad to me they feel they now have the answer to tell girls to not have sex or not have sex first.. just do this instead, then have sex.
From someone who didn’t have any talks with my mom, whom I love dearly, though she just couldn’t do it.. I have resolved to do as best as I can with my girls.. especially in this world we will grow up in. They have to be armed with the Truth.
I’ll be 23 this July and I can’t even begin to explain how many temptations young ladies already endure in the world with sex being plastered all over – billboards, commercials, magazines, lyrics to songs, celebrities, clothing designed for this generation of girls, etc. You cannot avoid it – wherever you walk.. it’s there. I think it’s amazing to see things through the perspective of one who is not a believer, it brings so much more of a burst of energy in my Spirit to know God more and to make His holiness & love known to these young teenage women. We as Christian women & young women have a massive task ahead of us – wheww, it almost seems impossible, but our God is a MASSIVE GOD and He makes everything possible! This equips me to think how temporal are minds are right now – where is the Church? Who would actually step out and speak after hearing something like this come from a influential lady (Oprah)?
This simply shows how society has further digressed to “me. myself. and i” mode – how can I please myself? What can I get out of this? This is the complete opposite of the life of Christian. We are taught to serve, to give, to love, etc. What a confusing message to receive for young girls when you hear both sides of it.
Frankly, this episode on Oprah just continues to remind me that this society has no self control .. and we are taught self-gratification at a young age .. although we miss the FINE print about the consequences and the pain we will have to walk through once we make selfish decisions at a young age.
Shannon, thanks for sharing. You and I have a similar heart for this.. and I ache even more now to make the GOOD News known in my generation after hearing such foolishness. It reminds me of that old-school song: “I Have Decided to Follow Jesus” – there’s a line that sticks out to me always.. “Though none go with me, STILL I will follow” As Christian women and young women, this is what we are called for. We are to be that remnant, the Bride of Christ, reaching out to touch the hem of His garment. I’m so thankful for the Cross at times like this. Again, thank-you for stirring in my Spirit a desire for more.
sorry, i couldn’t even finish more than the first two paragraphs before i have to write: appalling, APPALLING! i would’ve choked on my chocolate too. yeah, let’s give our girls vibrators instead of instilling moral values and self-control in them! oh brother! i don’t think it could get much more absurd than that. sometimes you have to just throw up your hands and sigh, but on the other hand, people actually listen to this trash and take it to heart, so thanks for blogging about it. i also enjoyed your book.
I don’t agree with this “expert” at all. The fantasies that go along with masturbation will encourage her to “feel the real thing” rather than discourage her from sex because she can take care of that need herself. If she’s attached emotionally to the boy, she may even fantasize about HIM during masturbation only making the desire to have sex with him stronger.
It also sets her up for a rocky sex partnership when she does get married because after that long of taking care of the need herself she very likely will prefer the way she pleasures herself if she does not reach orgasm during sex. This can block off an opportunity for her husband to manually try to help her reach it.
As a parent, I will be open with my daughter but I will not encourage sex toys and masturbation. I don’t think that’s the answer.
I had pretty much the same reaction you did. I can certainly agree with the idea that encouraging “whenever” masturbation leads to a very polluted view of what sex is about by focusing only on the physical pleasure and response. While I cannot speak for how a young girl would feel, I can definitely tell you that boys will continue to escalate and could very easily end up at a place where no woman can really satisfy him because he has built a fantasy life that is so far removed from reality. In addition, masturbation is generally done quickly and can lead to problems with “stamina” when a spouse is in the picture. In addition, the issue of lust has not been addressed. What are these young girls and boys thinking about when “taking matters into their own hands”? It is a difficult subject – it IS normal to experiment with masturbation but how do we set and describe the boundaries to our kids?
When I saw that Oprah was doing this show I had to watch it because my husband, a youth pastor, is teaching a class on Sundays to adults about the teen culture today. I agreed with her about the open communication and pray I teach my daughter to share with me and ask me questions. But when she started talking about the vibrators I was floored! I thought to myself that sex now is just so normal with the teen world today. They don’t get surprised about classmates getting pregnant-it is just the normal thing now. I have seen and heard parents say that yes they hear this stuff at school but I can’t tell them “no” . In my mind and opinion teens are running homes and parents are just saying okay to whatever is normal. Buying a vibrator for a girl to me is like buying your son porn. Sex to teen and adults is not a serious or sacred act. I don’t want to taint my daughters mind that “you can use this instead of the man God has for you” Why give your daughter a machine that is a fast fix instead of teaching her a life lesson and protect her and her future relationships. We are always looking for an easy way out!
If some (Oprah and friends?) understand sex as a drive the same as hunger or thirst that can just be satisfied any way, and the means doesn’t matter, can we carry that same logic to eating? Let’s just load up on potato chips and chocolate cake as long as we get full!
Obviously that’s a bad idea and a misuse of the hunger drive. As this idea of teaching teenagers how to use vibrators or providing them porn is a misuse of the sex drive.
Seems like an anology Oprah and friends may understand.
I completely disagree with your opinions and the conclusions you have come to. Mastrubating doesn’t become an addicition anymore than someone who has 1 glass of wine a week, is an alcoholic. The majority of people can have a drink or two and stop. The same way, the majority of people who mastrubate ( which is pretty much everyone, whether they admit it or not ) are not addicted to it. Would you call it an addiction if a married couple had sex everyday, or suggest they need “self-control”? There is a difference between healthy eating and binge eating. We need food, but binge eating is abusing food. If matrubation replaces a spouse, then that is absolutely a problem! But for a single person, there is no problem.
Sex drive is normal and natural. The way God designed us, was to marry and start having sex in our teens. But in todays society, teen marriage is a horrible idea ( I hope you agree ). So basically, you are expecting young people to handle years and years of abstinence, even though their bodies ( as deisgned by God ), are already ready. I think it is unreasonable, sets teens up for lying to parents, puts unattainable expections on them, guilt on them, and for what purpose? If mastrubating will delay my teens sexual debut, then fantansic! STD’s, pregnancy, regrets, loss of reputation, broken-heart and lack of maturity are all the wonderful reasons to delay sex. But mastrubation carries none of these negative consequences.
There are alot of things the Bible doesn’t specifically mention, and it is up to us the determine what Jesus would want. during Biblical times, the general idea was that women did not enjoy sex at all. Sex was for pro-creation. Sex was controlled by men, as was society. even in the sensual Song of Solomon, everything is about the *man* recieveing pleasure. A woman’s enjoyment was not considered.
I believe Jesus wants us to have healthy relationships. I believe Jesus does not want teens having babies, or broken hearts. That said, I think regulating even self-pleasuring is so instrusive and controlling, that it truely upsets me. What kind of guilt and shame in sex and in their own bodies, are women learning when we tell them touching themselves is a moral failing? It sounds alot like what we’ve heard all over the world, throughout time: a woman’s sexuality must be controlled and strictly regulated; because men are the ones in control. sadly, we see countries that take the supression of female sex drive so seriously, that little girls have their clitoros cut off and their vaginal opening sewn up: all in the name of self-control.
I feel very sad for the women whose loving parents are teaching them things that will lead to a lifetime of sexual dysfunction.
I don’t think the commenter above understands Song of Solomon. It’s not all about a man’s pleasure. In fact, the woman pursues the man. She searches for him and craves him–even dreaming about him. In so many passages she clearly enjoys him and all his “fragrance.” The Bible speaks positively about sex for men and women. The idea that the Bible is silent on the subject is a common misunderstanding, I think.
It’s not really comparing apples with apples to discourage moms from buying vibrators for their daughters with female genital mutilation. One is saying sex is fantastic and best experienced in marriage and not solo the other is saying sex is not for you and is something you will never/can never enjoy. The messages are very different.
Thank you Daja I completely agree with you. God created sex to be a wonderful thing for marriage, period. He calls us to be pure a holy- different than the world so if the world is saying buy a vibrator than we are called to have self-control (fruit of the spirit). I think it is wrong of us to compare buying a vibrator to 3rd world countries that have evil rituals on women. We need to teach our teens to be open with us and we be open with them about mistakes we have made and tell them the price we had to pay for it. We need to teach our teens that God created sex and He created it for marriage and there is a reason for that. We need to be honest with teens that this is a very hard temptation but there is rewards at the end for having self-control. Teens don’t think about how this is going to effect their future they don’t think, “okay if I do this now what will my marriage look like in the future…” that is not how their mind works. But as parents and adults we do think that way so we need to teach them. Sex is a HUGE part of marriage and I want my daughter to have the best sex life with her husband so I will teach her it is well wroth the wait to have sexual pleasures and her husband and he is the best sex “tool” to have. A lot of teen don’t have the mind set of when enough is enough. When they experience something good they will keep doing it until someone says stops and then too they could get too far into that they cant and don’t want to stop. Once you have experience sex whether with another person or a machine they have tasted it and want more. I have told many teens once you start sexual acts it is very very hard to stop. WE NEED TO TEACH SELF-CONTROL for our teens.
I still think you ladies are extremely out of touch, and over-reacting. I have seen nothing in the Bible, nothing in my conscience, and nothing in reality that gives any reason mastrubation is morally wrong. Everyone is *assuming* that occasionaly mastrubation is going to lead young people down the path to sexual disfunction, but that is simply not true. I asked: if you have one glass of wine a week are you an alcoholic or destined to become one? And my point about female gential mutliation ( which I think readers didn’t get ), is that it comes from a place of supressing normal sexual desires; which is much like the attitudes here. I fully support encouraging teens to wait until marriage, and I’m against pornography for teens and couples. But a solo orgasm is not the path to destruction. In fact, our bodies are designed to orgasm, so that if we do not mastrubate or have sex, orgasm occurs in a ( usually erotic )dream. This is a biological fact. Think of the guilt you are instilling in girls who experience this.
Everyone keeps talking about self-control, and in *this instance*, I’m asking why? I believe it’s because of women’s sexual hang-ups and discomfort with admitting that teensa re sexual beings. I can 100% gaurentee you that every teen has graphic sexual fantasies, and that every boy mastrubates regularily, and at least half of girls do. and those things will NOT do them harm. Teen sex, STD’s, pregnancy and porn are things that will harm them. and, I firmly believe you are setting people up for failure. No sex *and* no masturbation is a forula doomed to fail. No amount of prayer changes the natural our human bodies.
Giving yourself an orgasm is completely different from actual sex.
I usually just read these blogs and don’t comment, but this time I must add my comments. I am a recovering sex addict in which I have been addicted to masturbation, sexual fantasies, and pornography for the past 16-17 years – Yes – I am a female and have an addiction to sex!
How I view my addiction to masturbation is that, for me, it is a sin because I have been worshiping my own body instead of worshiping my Savior Jesus Christ. I have tried to stop numerous times and I compulsively must masturbate even when I don’t want to. I cannot quit on my own. Just like that person drinking a glass of wine once a week, that is how I started. But soon it can lead to twice and three times a week, and pretty soon daily.
An addiction is an appetite out of control. People can become addicted to food (overeaters anonymous) of which we have normal appetites by simply using food as a means of comfort. In parallel, I, as a single person in my late 40’s who has never married and abstained from sex with another person, have a need for intimacy (a normal appetite) that I have been trying to meet by myself through masturbation fueled by pornography and fantasy.
So, handing a teenage girl a vibrator would only be setting her up for a future of dysfunctional sex because her young and developing brain is not ready for the rush of pleasure neurotransmitters (i.e. dopamine) that encourage a teenager to repeat that pleasure again and again and again until the sex drive is so strong, she will not be able to abstain when she is in the presence of that young man who is in hormone overdrive.
Learning to talk through with your parents the feelings, urges, bodily functions, etc. is so critical as a teenager. They have intimacy needs that must be met by caring parents, etc. so they do not need to find that intimacy elsewhere as a teenage until they are able to make the decision for marriage – where sex is a glorious and amazing gift from God.
Dr. Burman was off-base. I speak from experience. I am a sex addict and my primary acting out tool is masturbation!
Thank you so much for your thoughts Shannon. I completely agree and am so thankful for the stance you’re taking in our society. If we ever have a little girl, I’ll definitely be using your books as guidance so she can become a sexually confident wife one day.
Maria I totally understand where you are coming from. I as a teen never masturbated nor did my husband. Masturbation I think is a natural curiosity but I do think it can go too far and I think you would agree with me on that. But I am not going to go out and buy my daughter a vibrator for her to masturbate… I think that was the point the woman on Oprah was saying. There is no shame in it and I think most of these women would think so either if it doesn’t become a controlling habit. As a mom it is hard for me to think that my daughter would be growing up to know and think about sexual things. We want our children to stay innocent, its hard to face that they do grow up to become sexual beings. My fear with teens is that once they’ve done it, what makes us think that they wont do other things as well. Yes we say that they wont be having intercourse but they know this orgasmic feeling so wouldn’t you think if they were with their boyfriend or girlfriend they would just have sex and I mean all forms intercourse or oral to get that pleasure. As I have been saying we need to be open with each other, open the Bible and study, answer questions and ask question with each other and pray with each other. We cant pray for God to help us change how He has made us but we can ask Him for help and understanding. I think my problem is not masturbation but what could follow and that what I mean with teaching them self control and I mean that if they are at school and get the feeling not to head off to the nearest bathroom and free themselves. Someone help me if I am wrong to worry about after the whole masturbation what it may lead to.
I have to say that our ministry team has been OVERWHELMED with delight over the number of responses we’ve received to this entry (via Facebook, our Ning Web Community, and this blog)! THIS is what women (and especially women in the CHURCH) should have been doing over the past several decades — opening up lines of communication and TALKING about these issues, especially with our own daughters! Keep it up, ladies (and gentlemen)! Take these conversations into your churches, social groups, and circle of friends. Let’s take the “taboo” out of this topic so we can sharpen and encourage one another to be the BEST stewards of God’s precious gift of sexuality!
I am a missionary, biblical counselor and pastor’s wife coming up on our 43ed wedding aniversary, so I have alot of experience in dealing with people. I can only afirm as strongly as possible that self-gradification is a poor substitute for self-control and is addictive in a terrible way. Self-gratification can becom MORE satisfying than gratification through RELATIONSHIP. We had friends in Seminary whose marriage ended in divorce because the husband preferred masterbation to having sex with his wife. although I live in Brazil and do not watch American TV, I weep for the diabolical influence of ungodly media personalities. We have the same problem here. Without the guidance of the Word of God, these people lead many others down paths of distruction.
I’m a Christian/pro-life aunt of two tweens….ages 10 1/2 and 12. They live in a small town in Indiana but I’m concerned about the message s they get from medida, music, tv etc. I wish I lived closer so I could be there for them to talk too if they don’t feel comfortable talking to a parent or any other adult….some of those people may not be Christians and would give them the worldy info (that is one thing I’m really concerned about).
Young adult women in college and older adult women who can get pregnant also need to learn this message too. These women too can get pregnant out of weddlock if they don’t excerise self-control & they too can also get broken hearts. We are not like the animals God created….we can have self-control because we are not like the animals we are humans created in His image (the animals are not created in His image)!
But the discussion is not about mastrubatng instead of intimacy with a spouse. To reject a spouse for mastrubation is terrible, and more about disrespecting your spouse than sex.
The fact is, the majority of people masturbate. Human beings have sexual needs, again, a fact. The *majority* of people who masturbate do not become addicted. To ask a healthy, young person with crazy horomones, to abstain from release, is cruel, and repressive. This is just the latest trend in society’s never-ending quest to control a woman’s sexuality, force her into marriage, and make her feel ashamed for being a sexual being.
Carol, I’m sorry you are hurting. The need to have sexual release is not sinful. I’m curious as to how you are defining “addicition”. Is it mastrubating once a month, a week, a day? Is it mastrubating when you feel it’s sinful, because that’s what you’ve been told? Or are you missing work to mastrubate and running up debt on porn sites? Sexual release is a *need* just like food. sometimes I don’t “want” to eat, but I need to. It’s biological: if a person doesn’t have sexual release on their own or with someone else, it happens on it’s own ( usually while asleep ). This *proves* that the need for release is *normal* and has nothing to do with “self-control”.
So, I still have seen no Biblical evidence that mastrubating is wrong, and I think mothers are fooling themselves if they think their teens are abstaining. I don’t want my daughter to ruin her life with a teen pregnancy. I also don’t want to set her up for failure. Mastrubating would be a safe way for her to fufill her needs, without getting a disease.
Coinsidentally, my best friend called me today in tears. Last night, she discovered her 13 year old son is having sex with his 14 year old girlfriend. Is this okay?? No, of course not! But does anyone honestly expect this boy to go back to being celibate? This boy will continue to have sex or mastrubate, and there is no getting around that.
I think all the women on this site are wonderful, loving people, with big hearts and good intentions. But I think you are naviee, and setting up teens for failure. You can congratulate yourslef on your lifty ideals, while your teens sneak around behind your back, or live up to your expections and are in for a life of sexual repression.
Shannon, perhaps their wouldn’t be such a need to encourage Christian women to be more confident sexually, if society didn’t tear women down for being sexual beings, and condem sexual activity as a moral failing. The sexual repression in conservative Christianty is a *reason* for the sexual repression and dysfunction that women bring to their marriage. Touching yourself, feeling beautiful and sexy without needing a man accomplish that, is a wonderful, empowering thing that gives a woman confidence and self-esteem.
Maria, you seem to speak in a lot of absolutes. You wrote: “I can 100% gaurentee you that every teen has graphic sexual fantasies, and that every boy mastrubates regularily, and at least half of girls do.” That’s a rather bold statement, which cannot possibly be true. I, for one, as a teen did not have graphic fantasies. In fact, the week before my wedding I had to ask my mom all sorts of questions because I was blissfully innocent. I had never even seen a naked man–not even in pictures (well aside from art like “David” LOL!)
You also wrote, “You can congratulate yourslef on your lifty ideals, while your teens sneak around behind your back, or live up to your expections and are in for a life of sexual repression.”
Again you make an absolute judgment that if one doesn’t masturbate they’ll be repressed. I don’t know how such a claim can be made. While it may be true that many young people experiment with masturbation, to say that it is an integral part of healthy sexuality is not reasonable. In fact, I feel that it serves a person very well for their future marriage to learn to be self-controlled. Self-control is necessary in marriage as well as for single people. During seasons of illness, monthly cycles, post-partum, prayer and fasting, etc., a married person may wish to abstain and self-control is vital for the health of the marriage.
The woman in Song of Solomon is very wise when she counsels her friends, “Do not awaken love until its time.” This is a warning we rarely hear issued to young people today. This is not “the lastest trend” but an ancient path that we would do well to travel again.
God made sexual pleasures,yes. He also created them for marriage. God doesn’t, never has nor never will demand from us what is impossible for us to do. No there are no scriptures that specifically say masturbation is wrong but there is scripture about staying pure and holy. With masturbation there has to be some visual (porn, a girl or guy dressed in a way or fantasy) which that is sinful, look at Job 31:1-3. Masturbation comes with a lot more baggage than just the act. The act starts in our minds and then to our hearts. Masturbation is a temporary fill for the really pleasure we are seeking and what we are seeking is sex which God created for marriage. And once that is known the desire for that pleasure grows and grows so when it grows in our bodies it becomes a must have and I don’t want my daughter to have to fight this desire that would become so strong that she would seek what started this desire which is sex with a man.
Now, this whole women being suppress and being denied our sexuality is far from truth on my eyes. It is everywhere about women’s sexuality, look at the TV shows like Sex in the City or magazine advising woman how to use what God gave us to seduse men. It is everywhere, Teen magazine are a great place to look telling our teens the worldly views on sex and how to dress to get that guys attention. If anything our society is encouraging women’s sexuality and in a negative way.
I actually saw the definition of masturbation and it is with self-abuse. Again God would not create something and just dangle it in front of us like a piece of meat He is a loving God that yes made us sexually being and gave us the gift of His Holy Spirit to over come ANYTHING. Again, masturbation comes with a lot more than just the act. We as adult and Godly women need to be teaching our daughters and sons to be open up with us about their sexuality and tell them about ours. We have to break what society is saying is ok by teaching our children a godly and set apart way to every part in life. Now I think we are naive to think as adults that if our children have a habit of masturbating that their desire is getting old and seek something stronger-sex. God designed us to have sexual desires for women with a man or a man with a woman. So again the masturbating is just a temporary fix for the true desire God put in us.
Daja, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I think you’re sticking your head in the sand, and it will not help your kids. I think not recognizing mastrubation as normal is completely ridiculous and unreasonable.
And still no one has explained how mastrubating is Un-Christian. This is why it’s oppresive to women. It’s people twisting religion to justify an agenda. And ask some men. Women can put on the rose-colored glasses and it makes them happy, but men know what’s what. Every here the statistic: 96% of men mastrubate and 4% lie about it. Human beings are sexual. We have sexual thoughts and needs. It is how we were made, and not sinful.
OK, Maria, here it is in black and white – this is why masturbating is a sin for me (and others have said this in their postings, me included):
When I masturbate, I am committing idolatry – plain and simple. When I self-gratify (a less threatening word for masturbation), I am worshipping myself and taking my eyes off of my Lord and Savior, who is the ultimate source of love, intimacy, and the one who meets my needs. When I masturbate, there are images in my head of the porn that I’ve looked at along with fantasies that are very un-Christian.
Now, I will say that masturbate may not be a sin for everyone. I speak only for myself. If you can masturbate JUST to relieve the biological craving/urge that often happens at mid-cycle when you are ovulating, then Go For It! But I want to hear from those who have masturbated just to relieve that need, what is going on in your mind and heart at that moment?
Maria – I am not sticking my head in the sand. I’m living with the daily consequences of having “woke up” the sexual drive within me that I was totally unaware of in the first 30 years of my life by abstaining.
My definition of addiction is “avoiding pain.” When I do not want to feel sad, lonely, angry, hurt, hungry, tired, or bored – I escape by masturbating, escaping into a fantasy world where I don’t have to feel these things and instead will feel “happy” because of the neurotransmitters being released in my brain that impact the pleasure center of my brain.
It does not matter how frequently or infrequently I use masturbation as an escape, what matters is where my mind and heart are at when I do it.
Jesus reassures me that I am a sexual being, who can express her sexuality in a wide variety of ways (in addition to having an orgasm). Teach your daughters how to be comfortable with their bodies, how to express their sexuality in ways that do not require an orgasm (it can be done – Shannon is a great teacher on this!) and talk opening with any girl or woman you can about turning to Jesus instead of yourself in the midst of hurt/pain.
Thanks, Maria, for your willingness to dialog on this topic. I will never tell someone it is a sin to masturbate. I’ve determined it is for me because I am worshiping someone other than Jesus when I do it. You go right ahead and do it, and if you want to encourage your daughters to “go for it”, do so; but I speak from experience, your taking a big risk in showing them a gateway to a path that may be too broad and difficult for them to resist going “all the way.”
Carol, thank you for your honest reply, and I will say: anything you feel badly about, is something you shouldn’t do, so I wish you strength.
Since you were honest, I’ll be equally honest. When I mastrubate, it’s purely about the release and there is no thought of porn ( which I am very against ), a man, or even my husband. It’s just about the sensation. Since I have a husband, it’s a rare thing ( really helps with cramps during my period ). I would never use it in place of my husband.
Katie, I was thinking more about what you said, and you bring up an excellent point about sex in the media. I think the part that is missing though, is that the media is presenting women with what is sexy ( often an unattainble ideal ), and promoting a male’s fantasy of what he wants sexy to mean. I think we should reject those ideas, not by supressing our sex drives, but celebrating what real, authentic female sexuality is all about. I can be confident and sexy, even though I’m not blond and busty. I’ll be totally honest that touching myself, sensually and sexually, has made me more aware of what my husband sees and feels when we are intimate. and it’s given me more confidence, lessened inhibitions, made me feel beautiful even though I’m a mom and have the scars to prove it!
I have daughters and I don’t want them to think they need to dress skimpy and wear a push up bra to be sexy. I also don’t want them to feel that they have to be completely asexual until marriage. They should define for themselves what “sexy” means, not just do what the media tells us to do.
and I do believe it’s dangerous when we give total control of our sexuality and fufillment of our needs, over to a man. It is not empowering or liberating to us. It puts us under a mans control; and makes us define our sexual selves only in relation to a man. As a feminst, I think giving a man that much power and control over the expression of our sexuality, can lead to an imbalance of power in a relationship.
Hi Shannon,
Dr. Berman’s recommendation is another great example of the misinformation I as a father am trying to safeguard the hearts of my children from. An excerpt from my ebook, “How to Be Wanted for a Lifetime of Nights and Not Just a Night of a Lifetime” speaks to the heart of this subject.
(Excerpt Begins)Excerpt Title: DESIGNED for DESIRE, But DESIRE for DESIGN
THE GAME
Sex and lasting relationships – Just what does baseball have to do with either of these?
Stay with me for a moment and you just may be surprised.
Imagine for a moment that you are with me at a professional baseball game. We each get our popcorn and peanuts and sit down with thousands of others who, just like us, came to see one of America’s favorite past-times. We are all on the edge of our seats as the players come out onto the field and the game begins, but as soon as the players take the field it becomes obvious that something unusual is happening at this game.
We quickly notice that there are no team jerseys being worn, no scoreboard being used, no umpires, no strikes, no outs, no bases on balls, no home runs, no innings and no rules.
What are the players on the field doing?
They all come out and casually pass the ball around to each other, hit a few pitches to people on both teams, run around the bases for no particular reason, sit down in the outfield grass rolling the ball back and forth and even juggle the bats in the air.
Imagine that this goes on for four hours until there are only a few people remaining in the stands and only a few players participating on the field.
Sound like a game you wish you could attend?
Not hardly, right?
In fact, I imagine you would be really glad you missed a game like that.
THE NEED FOR DESIGN
What is missing in my imaginary illustration above?
What is missing is DESIGN.
It is not that the people on the field are not having any fun. They are! In fact, they spend hours playing. But without design there is nothing really there to hold their attention for very long and their excitement is short-lived. There is no team spirit, no rules of engagement, no challenge and no winning or losing. It is simply casual play without much purpose.
You see, baseball needs design if it is going to thrive and succeed. The desire to throw the ball back and forth may be fun for a little while, but the design of the game is what gives baseball (really any sport) its long lasting appeal and purpose.
What does this simple illustration have to do with sex and lasting relationships?
Because of my message, some may mistake me as being against desire. With articles I have written like “Girls Gone Mild,” “The SURGE of the URGE,” “Victoria’s Secret Disclosed,” and “A Heat-scar Named Desire” circulating all over the Internet, some may wonder if my message is anti-sex or anti-desire.
Nothing could be further from the truth!
I know that our sexuality is important and that we are designed for desire. But I also know that chasing desire, although widely embraced by so many around the world as the norm in life and relationships, will leave us longing for more if we make physical desire the all that ends all. While we are indeed designed for desire we also desire for design.
DESIGN DEFINED
In the quest for love and lasting relationships, many approach sex and relationships just like the players in my illustration approach baseball. Their relationships, and how they use their bodies, are simply casual play without much purpose, full of desire and empty of design.
There is something, a cry, a yearning, a longing within the heart for permanence in relationships. In a world where limited shelf life and expiration date relationships seem to be the order of the day, this desire for design still holds true. Marriage and family life is still the design and what it’s all about. It still holds true that relationships are more about LEG-A-CY than about how much LEG-I-SEE.
One of the greatest deceptions of our time has been embracing the belief that seeking the nighttime is the ultimate goal of life and relationships. The ultimate goal of life and relationships is in seeking the lifetime. Until we once again regain this understanding and make lifetime the pursuit in life and relationships, we will continue the vicious cycle of recycling being experienced in relationships today. (END of Excerpt)
I believe that what we ELEVATE becomes what we CELEBRATE. What a great gift we parents can give our children, in moments like you’re describing, if we ELEVATE being a DESIGN MAKER instead of a DESIRE CHASER.
As I listened to you describe Dr. Berman’s recommendation, it reminded me of what I once saw at an Elvis Impersonator concert. The Elvis impersonator wiped his sweat on a towel and tossed it into the crowd like the real Elvis used to do. People would fight over the sweaty towel tossed by the real Elvis, but when that impersonator tossed it into the crowd that night, everyone moved aside and watched it hit the floor untouched. It was untouched because people know a cheap imitation of the real thing when they see it.
Taking a teenage girl, heart hungry for the lifetime, and teaching her to settle for the moment, is, at best, a cheap imitation. Why not, instead, challenge her to hold out for the real thing her heart is longing for and help her understand the difference between being a sexual being and being sexual. She can’t control the fact that she is a sexual being, but she has full control of when she will be sexual.
Ultimately, it is really about what pattern she is going to allow her life to be governed by. Whether or not it is right or wrong for her to be masturbating is not the issue. The real issue is whether or not this is the best pattern for her to embrace as a means for handling her sexuality. If she learns the pattern of CONNECTING HER SEXUALITY WITH DESIGN and not just DESIRE like society and so many other voices around her promote, it helps establish a pattern for her life where the fires of her sexuality warm her life instead of burn her life.
Stanley J. Leffew
http://www.advice-for-lifetime-relationships.com
I find it hard to be a femist and a christian woman since God says that Christ is the head over men and men head over women. You may think that this is old school in thinking that a woman is to submit to her husband but that is what God has called us to do. Now I will teach my daughter to do so and to respect her husband uncoditional as God has told us to do.
Now in the minds of teens which this is supposed to be about. Sexuality has the word “sex”in it, I dont want my daughter to be called sexy nor refer to sexuality at 12-16 thats just uncalled for. We are making teens grow up too fast and putting teens into adult situations. And sex is an adult situation that teens are not ready to handle.
Here is the difention of sexuality:
Sexual orientation is an enduring pattern of emotional, romantic, and/or sexual attractions to men, women, both or neither. According to the American Psychological Association sexual orientation also refers to a person’s sense of “personal and social identity based on those attractions, behaviors expressing them, and membership in a community of others who share them.”[1] Sexual orientation is usually classified according to the sex or gender of the people who are found sexually attractive. Though people may use other labels, or none at all[2], sexual orientation is usually discussed in terms of three categories: heterosexual, homosexual, and bisexual. These orientations exist along a continuum that ranges from exclusive heterosexual to exclusive homosexual, including various forms of bisexuality in-between. Sexologists see this linear scale as an oversimplification of a more nuanced notion of sexual identity.[3]
Most definitions of sexual orientation include a psychological component, such as the direction of an individual’s erotic desire, or a behavioral component, which focuses on the sex of the individual’s sexual partner/s. Some definitions include both components. Some people prefer simply to follow an individual’s self-definition or identity.
Rather teens have oral sex, masturbate, “fingering” and other acts of sexuality they do they are taking away something from themselves and giving something they can’t get back. And emotional they as teens cant handle that-even when teens say they are over it or it wasn’t a big they will never forget and have an emotional connection to that person FOREVER. That is how it effects a young mind, as I have seen from working with teens. Young teenage girls might say that the tv, magazines and others don’t effect them put they will always want to look like so and so, have her nose, having big boobs, loss 10 more pounds and on and on. Teen girls know what guys like at that age-and girls are boy crazy so they will do whatever to get that boys attention. That is when parents need to teach their children standards at a young age. Teens most of all just want to fit in and be excepted and they will do whatever it take weather it is dress a way, speak a way, or have strong sexuality.
Hello across the miles to Daja, Katie and Carol. Thank you each for your helpful remarks. You are seeing the question from a biblical perspective. As to Maria’s remarks, I can only assure her that no godly woman is “giving total control of her sexuality and fulfillment of her needs” to her husband or any other man. God should rule our sexuality and only our relationship to Him can meet our deepest needs for love, intimacy etc. Yes, husbands are a gift from him and an expression of God’s love for us (Husband love your wife as Christ loves the Church and gave his life for her), but the power in the relationship belongs to Christ. This “giving total control” remark is just another one of the “straw men” that the feminist use to confuse and decieve women. I was in the very first course of so called Biblical Femenism at Fuller Seminary and there were so many straw men arguments that at the time seemed so compelling. But by studying God’s word and learning to think clearly, I was set free to really be the woman God created me to be. Yes, I am a Help Meet and thankful to be that! It is the most fulfilling life I can imagine. The only imbalance of power in our marriage is when one or the other of us looses site of Christ and His authority in our life. I pray that Maria and her husband can find that balance. Feminist make such a fetish of POWER! As one of my professors at LeTourneau University use tosay, !There is plenty of power to go around!”
I can see where Maria is coming from but at the same time not everyone can masturbate “purely for the release” as Maria puts it and without damaging fantasy. I started masturbating in my early teens without porn or fantasy and it actually increased my sex drive and lead me to those things. Numerous sexual partners(heaps of guilt)and years later I am now a married woman and struggle to orgasm with my husband (who came to this marriage as a virgin) without un-christian thoughts or fantasies. Every time we have sex its a battle to keep my mind on him. I for one will not be giving my daughter a vibrator to intensify her urges but I will be honest and open with her about sex as Shannon has done at an early age with her daughter and I will pray that this firm foundation will lead her to make wise decisions in her future.
Katie, again, you and I will have to agree to disagree. I do NOT believe I have to submitt to a man, ro give him control over my sexuality, to be Christian and I also do not believe God wants us to submitt to our husband’s de facto.
If you study Jesus’ relationship with various women, you’ll see for the time and place he was in, he broke the rules, defied the societal norms and was extremely progressive-shockingly so. He accepted women, spoke to women, taught women, forgave women, respected women…in a way that was setting an example of what the relationship between men and women should be like. I see a real problem in the growth of the Christian faith when people take the Bible out of context, take it literally, and use it to move *backwards*, when society always moves forwards. I believe Jesus was a Feminist ( and a Socialist, but that’s another discussion ). If you understand the historical context, you’ll Jesus giving respect to women they enever had before.
Pal on the other hand, was a lawyer, and long-winded! He made lots of silly rules for people, because that’s just Paul’s personality. If he believed women should keep their head covered and be silent in church, he may have convinced himself Jesus would have felt the same. He even said a couple of times ” I don’t have a word on the Lord on this, however…” maybe he should have said that more! While Paul was well-intentioned, he encouraged things Jesus never even mentioned. Jesus allowed Mary to sit at his feet and learn, while Martha wanted her to help in the kitchen. Jesus’ response was that Martha was worried about inconsequentials ( a woman’s place, what will the neighbours think? ), but Jesus defended Mary’s choice to listen and learn.
Back to the sex topic, again, orgasms happen whether people mastrubate or not. Some solo orgasms takes nothing away from the real thing, and the more extreme a faction of a religion or views within it get, the more it pushes away moderates like myself. My Google is broken ( long story! ), but even of the kids who take abstience pledges, 80% of them are having sex by 18. More than 90% of everyone has sex before marriage. Teen pregnancy is on the rise ( and about 1/3 of pregnant teens opt for abortion ). What is the goal? If you set the goals so high, there is little hope of achieveing them on a large scale ( of course some individuals will suceed ).
I think setting reasonable goals, with legitiame reasons ( as opposed to : mastrubate robs your soul ) will work alot better. Trsut me, I was the daughter of women like you and I nodded and smiled while inside was rolling my eyes. I think we human beings do alot to corupt the image of God, and use God to force our agenda on others. Honestly, I simply don’t believe God cares if I touch myself once and a while. I’m not hurting anyone. God cares if I’m a good mother, volunteer, donate to charity, nurture my marriage…and all the other things that I strive to do. My daughter’s worth and value lies in so much more then their ability to be asexual.
Maria, we are on totally different topics. The topic was buying a teen girls a vibrator not feminism. I prayed God would give me words to say and I believe I spoke what He wanted me to say. I am a young 25 year old woman and have experiences some consequence of teen sex drive and it wasn’t on my want. So I have a different view to protect a child’s innocence and keep them pure.
Katie, I feel feminism and sex ( including teen sexuality ) is directly related. I want to raise strong, confident girls who will marry or not based on love and respect…not because they want sex. I cannot think of a worse reason for marriage. And yes, the message here is: if you want to gratify your sexual needs, you *must* have a man. I find that line of thinking to be fundementally anti-feminist, and a horrible foundation to marriage.
I am a mother of daughters, one of whom is preparing to start puberty. I want to encourage her to delay sexual intercourse as long as I reasonabley can, and I believe supporting self-gratification can help alot. My goal is not for my daughter to be asexual. She *is* a sexual being. she *will* have a sex drive, whether I like it or not. But I do not want her to get pregnant, get a disease or get her heart-broken. That is so much more important to me, then forbidding her to touch her own body! ( Over-the-top and unenforceable ). Teens have sex for the exact same reasons adults have sex: sex is enjoyable and human beings want to do it.
I also reject the notion that sex, sexual desires, and organsms, make one “unpure”. No one has yet to address the fact that teens have orgasms even without mastrubation. What kind of guilt are we instilling in our young girls when she has a sexual dream and orgasms in her sleep? *These* are the exact messages that set-up the sexual dysfunction that carries over to marriage. It teaches shame in sexual thoughts, shame in your body, and places all a girls value and self-worth in her so-called “purity”. My daughter is more than a hymen.
Maria,
I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the design argument against masturbation. I’m sure you’ve heard it, but if you haven’t allow me to expound:
Sex was designed by God for the context of marriage. While the bible does not address every little thing we can or cannot do sexually, it is clear on what our sexuality was created for. As found in Genesis (the creation story) thru the new testament the bible is clear on one thing- sex is for marriage.
It is an awesome gift that should be full of pleasure, excitement, intimacy and fun! However it was created for a man and a woman to enjoy together.
In my opinion, where purpose is unrealized abuse is inevitable. Proverbs tell us that without revelation people cast off restraint. We need not seek how to find every loophole left in the bible concerning personal conduct and do those things. Let’s seek to know the commands of Jesus and His designed order for here on earth and let’s seek to fulfill his plan in full.
It’s difficult to flee the fleshly desires of our youth as Paul urges us in 2 timothy, however not having orgasms when we are single should in no way put a damper on how many, how pleasurable, and how free our orgasms are within the context God created them for.
Additionally, guilt does not indicate that there is a future of shame. When we mess up or if we feel guilty for false reasons we are blessed to be free from this shame in the cross of Christ! Let’s teach our daughters to love to please God, and if their conscience is guilt probed, to find comfort in the cross.
I’m excited to hear your response!
Thanks for the lively discourse.
*guilt proned not probed
Scriptures that are important to ponder in relationship to the topic of masturbation:
1 Corinthians 6:12-13, 15, 17-20 – “Everything is permissible for me” – but I will not be mastered by anything. “Food for the stomach and the stomach for food” – but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. … Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? … But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.
Two things I draw from this passage that I cannot ignore:
1) Everything is permissible for me – but not everything is beneficial: Yes I can masturbate, but is it beneficial? To whom is it beneficial? Me only? Am I being self-focused? Am I worshiping myself? May I cause my brother or sister in Christ to stumble in their walk with the Lord if I encourage them to masturbate? (see Romans 14:13 – Therefore, let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother’s way.)
2) “…your bodies are members of Christ himself,” “…your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit” and “You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.” – I am a sinner, most undeserving of God’s mercy and grace, simply because I am a human being (ancestor of Adam and Eve). Because God has saved me through His great mercy and grace, He owns me (also see 1 Peter 2:9-10). I am to be submissive to Him, to praise Him and to bring Him glory. As a single female I have learned the hard way that I have violated my body and not kept it as the Holy Spirit’s holy (set apart) temple (dwelling place) because I started masturbating which led to pornography and unhealthy/unholy fantasies. As Bree just said, masturbation “actually increased my sex drive” and is now paying the consequences of struggling with having sex with her husband because she is having “a battle to keep my mind on him.”
Encouraging your daughters to masturbate must be done with great thought and caution. Is this really what God desires us to do, or are we caving into the world’s way?
Abstinence works – I abstained for 30+ years and had no problem with my sex drive because I did not wake it up. Curiosity led to masturbation later in my life. I was unable to stop there. In time, it led to porn and I cannot remove those images from my mind – they are stuck there for good (unless God desires to remove them). I sought help because I was about to walk out the door of my isolated home and seek out “the real thing” meaning having sex with another person outside of wedlock. Who would know – right? My Lord and Savior knows all things! I praise Him for helping me to seek out help! I give Him all the praise!
Hi Meghan.
I would definately classify myself as a liberal Christians, much more liberal than the others who have posted here.
I believe the Bible needs to be read within the context of the time, who wrote it, when, where, for whom etc. The Bible is full of metaphor and stories. I don’t take it literally, because that, in my opinion is not the point.
for example, I don’t know if Noah really existed or not, or if there was a great flood. The point of the story was Noah’s obedience even in the face of other’s doubt, and God being displeased with wickness.
Regarding design, I’m not 100% convinced that sex was made just for marriage, or even just for a man and a woman. 2000+ years ago, the world was very different. There was no birth control, women didn’t get child support; women were uneducated and unable to support themselves and a baby. There were no DNA tests. In that time and place, it would of course be the smartest thing to abstain until marriage.
I think the spirit of that teaching, applied to today’s society and culture, is to be very careful, really consider the consequences of your actions, and what you as an individual feels is true to yourself and your faith.
The “design” of a human body, is to begin having sex in the teen years. That is when people become fertile, and desire sex. When the Bible was written, teens were adults, who married and had families. Today, that isn’t the case. How do we reconcile two seeming conflicting things: people want sex as teens, but usually marry 15 years later ( comparing 15 to 30 )? There is a disconnect in the way we made, with the way we live. If we all married by 17 or 18, abstinance until marriage would be easy. And still not forgeting, teens are orgasaming whether they mastrubate or not. That’s just a biological fact.
As strong as one’s faith may be, sex is at least partly, about our own pleasure, and pleasuring the other person. In many ways, we worship their body, they worship ours and we worship our own. I have an incredibly difficult time believing something is horrible and sinful one day, but perfectly fine the next. Murder is wrong. Stealing is wrong. Lying is wrong. And I still disagree that mastrubation is “sex”.
So, what would Jesus want us to do? I think the answer is different for each of us. For those who feel guilt or shame over certain things, I support them doing what is right for them. I don’t think there is always a cookie cutter answer, for something as private and personal as sex. I also truely feel, that as long as someone is true to their conscience and are not hurting anyone, then there is no problem. I may be able to mastrubate occasionally without problems or guilt. I will openly admit that I had partners before my husband and feel no remrose or guilt for that either. I have not hurt anyone else, or myself. And I want my daughters to make the best choices for them, not just do what will make me happy, or what will make some boy happy, but be true to themselves. My goals for them are perhaps different for other mom’s goals for their daughters, and that’s fine too. All this talk does not change the fact that only a very small percentage of people are virgins when they marry.
Maria,
Thankyou for your response. One thing that I really appreciate is when people are willing to think through their views and don’t back down based on human opinion. I am also very passionate about studying the bible contextualy it’s so much more real and alive that way and it lends to a more objective interpretation because it attempts to remove our own opinions from the picture.
While we have come to different conclusions on this matter I highly appreciate the challenge of another independent thinker!
I do have just one more thought.
At the end of your response you mentioned that all of our talk doesn’t change the fact that people rarely remain virgins until marriage. To me, whether or not people fulfill Gods commands does not change his commands. Christ has called us to do hard things, like taking up our crosses and denying ourselves to follow him. Few people ever deny themselves, but this doesn’t change what Christ has asked of us. And oh the sweetness of walking with Christ as he has asked us. It is far more gratifying and pleasing than any orgasm. (and when we get to have sex within his commands, how great is that!!!). God is so good and his commands aren’t a burdeon. They are only difficult when we haven’t died to ourselves.
I’m personally a virgin and I’m getting married in October. I find it delightful to obey God and offer him my living sacrifice as I abstain. That doesn’t change how much I crave sex and look forward to it. But as a 24 year old young lady, I prefer to experience the greater pleasures of sticking to Gods boundaries.
Your thoughts are good for all of us, and I’m thankful that our differing views have caused you no offense.
Meghan, congratulations on your upcoming wedding and marriage!
We are in different places in life and I think that very much affects our views and priorites. I have two daughters, one will be going into puberty soon. So, my goals are to get them to adulthood without getting pregnant, getting a disease, getting assauted, getting their reputation ruined, getting their heart-broken nad just surviving!
While I hope they don’t have sex while teens, and will bhe encouraged not to, I’m not naivee to the fact that they are sexual beings. For me as a mother, it’s more important that they don’t have sex; not that they don’t mastrubate ( which is where this whole discussion began! )
I also see very close up, the society teens live in, and know if I set the standards so high for them, they are almost certainly doomed to failure and the guilt nad loss of self-esteem that accompnaies it.
So, my point about most people not being virgins when they marry, is that I don’t want to assume my daughter’s will be asexual and fail to teach them about all the other things that go along with sex. People have sex drives. Most people ( yes, even teens ) give. As a mom, it’s better for them to mastrubate, then actually have sex.
(Giving yourself an orgasm is completely different from actual sex)
whoa, whoa ,whoa
i disagree with the above statement. i am a 16 years and a child of God. i sometimes masturbate but thanks to what i have learnt, i have stopped. most young people when masturbating think about sexual movies they have watched and imagine themselves as those women. i used to think about my husband,and how we were going to live, then i start thinking about sex with him, then i imagine him as the hunky guy i saw in the film the other day, then BOOM! MASTURBATION. it is really easy to fall into temptation. AND I CAN TELL U THAT MASTURBATION IS 100% WRONG.why? because i have experinced it and i found it really hard to stop. even though i went to the altar to pray for forgiveness, i still came back and did it again. IT IS ALL ABOUT THE WAY YOU OPEN YOUR HEART TO WORLDLY THINGS, FILMS, MAGAZINES. JESUS!, THEY ARE MANY. THEY might seen OK but i tell you the truth, it is alluring. In this world, the truth is hard to accept, even when we know that we are doing the wrong thing, we say everybody is doing it so…….. SO WHAT?. WILL YOU KILL YOUR MOTHER BECAUSE EVERYBODY IS DOING IT?. I WOULDN’T DO THAT.i came from a country that pratice female genital mutilation. Even though the government is trying to stop tribes who practice this, they are at the same time influencing the sexual practices. PEOPLE, WE HAVE GOT TO SEE THAT THE DEVIL IS AT WORK. he COMES WITH A GREAT ARMY TO DESTROY THE WORD OF GOD. WE HAVE GOT TO SEE IT IN THIS PERSPECTIVE. WHY IS IT THAT WE HAVE GOT MANY DIFFERENT BIBLES IN THE WORLD ALL PREACHING ABOUT DIFFERNT THINGS? THE DEVIL HAS TRIED SO MANY WAYS TO PREVAIL THE CHURCH. he IS USING OUR HEARTS, THE WORD THAT GUIDES US, THE PEOPLE THAT GOVERN US, THE MEDIA. OH MY GOD. IF ARE GOING TO ELIMINATE THIS, WE HAVE GOT TO LOOK AT THESE THINGS.
Pearlsy
I am so glad that someone your age is speaking out. It takes a lot of courage to say the things you said. I 100 % agree with you and it is uplifting to know that someone your age is seeing the temptation and seeking God and knows just how powerful the Devil is. Stay strong and I will and I know these other women will be praying for you and other teens! God bless you in your walk with Christ.
Pearlsy, if you feel masturbation is wrong and against against God’s wishes for you, then it’s ri9ght *for you* to stop.
But to disagree that mastrubation and sex are two different things, is completely ridiculous! Masturbation will not cuase pregnancy, pass along an STD, it won’t cause loss of reputation, the need for birth control and the responsibility that comes with it, it won’t cause heartbreak ( that a break-up with a guy would ) or lead to abortion.
Making the right choices for you, doesn’t change simple biology!
Ok Maria I really think it is ok to talk to adults like this but when a child talks openly about her life and her struggles, why can’t we as adults encourage her in what she does feel is wrong. We all know what you think about masturbation and we have said we agree to disagree. But please encourage not argue a point with a child that has her OWN experiences and a life we have no idea about!
Webster Dictionary definition of sex:
1. sex
Function: noun
1: either of the two major forms of individuals that occur in many species and that are distinguished respectively as female or male especially on the basis of their reproductive organs and structures
2: the sum of the structural, functional, and behavioral characteristics of organisms that are involved in reproduction marked by the union of gametes and that distinguish males and females
3 a: sexually motivated phenomena or behavior
b: sexual intercourse
4: genitalia
2 sex
Function: transitive verb
1: to identify the sex of
2 a: to increase the sexual appeal of
b: to arouse the sexual desires of
Webster’s definition of masturbation:
mas·tur·ba·tion Listen to the pronunciation of masturbation
Function: noun
erotic stimulation especially of one’s own genital organs commonly resulting in orgasm and achieved by manual or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse, by instrumental manipulation, occasionally by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these agencies
I don’t see anything in the definition of sex with respect to getting pregnant, passing along an STD, loss of reputation, cause heartbreak, lead to abortion. Masturbation is a form of sex that involves arousal of sexual desires and falls within the definition of: sexually motivated phenomena or behavior.
What I’ve learned from my own experience from compulsive masturbating is that there are consequences in my behavior – low self-esteem, shame, my work/productivity suffered, relationships with God and people were non-existent, and my beliefs about intimacy were lies – to name a few.
Pearlsy – thank you very much for expressing your thoughts, experiences, and concerns! God bless you.
Is an orgasm different than intercourse? Yes. That’s what I said, and I am correct. If the question is: is masturbation sex? Then, we will have different answers. But it is *fact* that a solo orgasm and intercourse are very, very different.
Kaite, my first sentence to Pearlsy was to *encourage* her to abstain from something she felt was wrong. Where are you getting that I’m trying to twart her??!! And 16 is not that young, plus it was her choice to post. I’ve not been nasty to her, but I’m not going to condscend to her either. If she felt she was intelligent and eloquent enough to participate in this conversation, I will be happy to converse with her.
And I’m not currently agruing in emotions or even right or wrong. We all have different views, which is why I’ve repeatedly said, if someone feels masturbation is wrong in their life, marriage or as a Christian, then don’t do it! I support you, 110%!
But biologically and factually, masturbation and intercourse are two very different things with very different outcomes. I will not apologize for pointing out simple biology! My 10 year old just had sex ed in school and even she knows there is a difference.
But *is* masturbation sex? I don’t believe so. There are lots of “sexually motivated” behavior, from a guy buying a girl a drink, to eating at Hooters, to a woman wearing a low-cut top to turn on her husband. “Sexually motivated phenomneas” could be all the women on TV being skinny and beautiful, even when their TV husbands are fat and bald. Or the way the rap industry portrays women ( yuck! ). People orgasm in their sleep! Are they “having sex” then too? It just seems over the top.
You have to realize that teens are not pron to common sense or rational behavior.
They are going to get involved in some sort of sexual activity as early as 10 years old. The question is do you want them pregnant or satiated.
Any information they could possible want is on TV or the internet.
My daughter opened a Fredrick’s account when she was 15. She would intercept her orders and the catalogs from the mail. I got home early one day and found i have ordered a bunch of lingerie. That was 20 years ago before you could order drugs and a hookers on the internet.
Before I even say anything I am going to make one thing very clear (hopefully). What I think, and how I feel about masturbation is my own personal opinion. It may not agree with your opinions and that is totally understandable. Just try to understand that.
This whole conversation makes me think of Romans chapter 14. Paul is talking about the danger of criticism! Yes there is a right and there is a wrong. The bible says that some things are wrong. Black as night. The do not cross line. Things like stealing and adultry, obeying the wishes of your parents.
But there are things that God doesn’t say YES or NO to. Specifically talked about and very contraversial in the time Romans was written was vegetarianism. Does God say that vegetarians are better and cleaner(more holy) than those who eat meat? No! God doesn’t think that one is better than the other. Because it was on the one persons conscience to not eat meat, doesn’t make the person who eats meat guilty. But Paul advises Christians to build each other up in what they believe to be true. If someone isn’t a vegetarian, don’t tear them down for being “cruel” and “barbaric” by eating the flesh of a once living animal. Don’t guilt them into being a vegetarian because you think believe eating meat is wrong. God loves each and every person individually! He wants for us to build each other up and for each of us to become confidant in who we are, unique and different. No two people are alike.
“So don’t condemn each other anymore. Decide to live in such a way that you will not put an obstacle in another Christian’s path.” Romans 14:13
To relate all that I just said to the topic at hand, in case you have no idea how any of this relates to masturbation, I will try to explain it.
Masturbation CAN be sinful. But it doesn’t have to be in every situation. I will say that I believe it to be a sin if you are lusting after someone in your heart while you masturbate because emotionally, you -may as well- be having sex with them. Now, I am in my late teens and completely understand how hormones can throw you off guard. I am a virgin, but I still have sexual desires. That doesn’t make me abnormal in any way. We are created to be sexual beings. It’s our nature. When you use that nature against God’s design, by joining yourself to someone else emotionally at that level without any commitment, you are hurting yourself and setting yourself up for confusion and pain. If you just masturbate for the hormonal release, to feel better about yourself, more confidant, more in control of your emotions, then fine. Just don’t masturbate with someone on your heart and mind.
I pray that one day God will send me someone that I can bond to. Someone who is stronger in their faith then I am, who can lead me in the paths that God has for me, and encourage and strengthen me. But until then I will guard my heart and follow God’s will.
I look at the arguing and frustration in the comments above, and I wonder how God feels about the division. Why can’t we simply discuss our opinions and accept that others will think differently? We should be encouraging and strengthening other Christians, not making them feel guilty about things that God hasn’t placed conviction upon their hearts for. If someone is truely and EARNESTLY seeking the will of God, God will show his will to them. Leave the guilt, conviction and condemning to God. Just know that God wants us to encourage and strengthen others.
So just remember that and try more of “Pray about it, read the bible and listen to the Spirit’s leading” and less of “It’s WRONG! You’re an evil sinner and God doesn’t agree with that.”